Devils Tower Conditions

Greg Kosinski wrote: I think it's kind of entitled to say that just because you have the right to do this thing, you won't choose not to as courtesy to them, especially when you could climb LITERALLY ANYWHERE ELSE.

At least Buck Rio is a hick old man and will probably die soon... 

I will not be climbing the Tower in June.

Buck Rio wrote: I didn't spend the best years of my life defending this country so I can have another persons religion imposed on me.

Thank you for your service.  Really.  But I find this comment absolutely ridiculous.  No one is "imposing" anything on you.  What a great example of entitlement and self-righteousness. How would you like it if I came to your place of worship while you were praying, drilled multiple permanent holes and started screaming at the top of my lungs while hanging from the ceiling?   The VAST majority of climbers have respect and perspective and do not violate the closure. Be like them.  

I think you all are missing the point, I'm not climbing the tower, in June or any other time.

But I hope they do close the fucking thing down, and see how you'll feel about it then?

It is a slippery slope between being "respectful" and having things dictated to you. It is happening in Georgia and Alabama right now.

Joseph Pulley wrote: Hey all, does anyone know how the climbing conditions are at Devils Tower? I’d like to summit via Durrance before the June closure. Thanks.

You can conveniently check the NOAA forecast here: https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105714267/devils-tower

If it isn't raining or snowing or excessively windy, it is good to go. Some people climb at the tower throughout much of the year when the the weather is favorable.

BLAH BLAH BLAH....dredge up the old thread so we don't have to renew the drivel every year......

Embarrassed to say wrote: BLAH BLAH BLAH....dredge up the old thread so we don't have to renew the drivel every year......

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/112893285/devils-tower-in-june-22-years-after-the-voluntary-june-closure-started-what-do-p 

Andy Novak wrote:

Thank you for your service.  Really.  But I find this comment absolutely ridiculous.  No one is "imposing" anything on you.  What a great example of entitlement and self-righteousness. How would you like it if I came to your place of worship while you were praying, drilled multiple permanent holes and started screaming at the top of my lungs while hanging from the ceiling?   The VAST majority of climbers have respect and perspective and do not violate the closure. Be like them.  

How is it that you view a climber's desire to be on Devil's Tower in June as entitlement but you don't see the native's desire for exclusive use of the area as entitlement? It goes both ways.

Your second point about someone coming into your place of worship (assuming by that you mean a church) and drilling holes, etc. is not a valid argument since the church is private property and as such the owners have a right to control access to the location. That is not a religious right, it is a property right. Devil's Tower is a property managed by the Federal Government and must be managed in accordance with the Constitution.

Shane Forsythe wrote:

How is it that you view a climber's desire to be on Devil's Tower in June as entitlement but you don't see the native's desire for exclusive use of the area as entitlement? It goes both ways.

Your second point about someone coming into your place of worship (assuming by that you mean a church) and drilling holes, etc. is not a valid argument since the church is private property and as such the owners have a right to control access to the location. That is not a religious right, it is a property right. Devil's Tower is a property managed by the Federal Government and must be managed in accordance with the Constitution.

Exclusive use? No. They just don't want people drilling holes and yelling during a single month in June. About entitlement and your private property point, funny you should bring that up. The Ft. Laramie Treaty of 1852 entitles the Lakotah to these lands. In U.S. vs Sioux Nation of Indians (1980) the Supreme Court ruled that this treaty had indeed been violated, and granted the Lakotah $106 million in restitution. 

Listen, I get it.  People want to be able to do what they want because...freedom and 'Murica.  Darn those Indians to heck! Ideas about sacred hills and rocks just aren't congruent with us 'muricans.  But I think climbers looking at the bigger picture and giving a few native Americans this tiny piece of Wyoming, for 30 days, is the least we can do to respect the original occupants of these lands.  Using the US Constitution as the basis for being an asshole and violating the closure is laughable.             

Andy Novak wrote:

Exclusive use? No. They just don't want people drilling holes and yelling during a single month in June. About entitlement and your private property point, funny you should bring that up. The Ft. Laramie Treaty of 1852 entitles the Lakotah to these lands. In U.S. vs Sioux Nation of Indians (1980) the Supreme Court ruled that this treaty had indeed been violated, and granted the Lakotah $106 million in restitution. 

Listen, I get it.  People want to be able to do what they want because...freedom and 'Murica.  Darn those Indians to heck! Ideas about sacred hills and rocks just aren't congruent with us 'muricans.  But I think climbers looking at the bigger picture and giving a few native Americans this tiny piece of Wyoming, for 30 days, is the least we can do to respect the original occupants of these lands.  Using the US Constitution as the basis for being an asshole and violating the closure is laughable.             

Drilling for new fixed gear is prohibited on Devil's Tower. [1] As for the yelling, if it weren't for the people already hiking around the tower making all kinds of noise, I could buy that. In my experience climbing on the Tower, it was easier to hear people on the trail when on the tower than the other way around. I understand that you are just using those to items as examples and my not mean them literally. 

I was at the Tower last year in mid July. I found it a bit odd that with all the talk about voluntary closure and respect for nature that the leftovers from the religious ceremonies were still hanging in trees and bushes. For me, it looked like random trash tied to a tree. I understand that there is significance to the items but leaving them after the ceremonies is a bit disingenuous, in my opinion.

For me, it is easy enough to avoid climbing in June but I don't like it. It really bothers me that the local guides all but ignore the voluntary closure. I feel like they should, above all other climbers, be the model for what the local climbing ethic represents.

[1] nps.gov/deto/planyourvisit/…;