J Tree Pure Negligence Accident May 5

We walked up to the crag and a group was blasting music and smoking. My partner and I asked them to turn the music down so we could hear each other since, you know, climbing is fun but should be taken seriously. We finished a climb at Hemingway. She rappelled down with our 70 m rope barely touching the ground. A guy belaying his buddy (both without helmets) asked her if her rope was a 70 m. She said yes and asked him if he had a 70 m. He said “I think it’s a 60 but I’ll lower him to that ledge where he can down climb.” I rapped down, we walked away and a few minutes later heard a scream. I looked over and a second later saw this guy’s head, without a helmet, hit the ground. We assisted in trauma care and he ended up walking out but his face and head looked like, well, he fell about 30 feet onto a rock. I hope he made it and did not suffer any internal brain bleeding. Please people-wear a helmet, know how god damn long your rope is and how that compares to the length of a route, and tie knots. I would love to never have to see a human body slamming into a granite boulder again when it can be so easily avoided.

Do you mean that the belayer tried to lower to that ledge to down climb.  But their 60m rope was too short and so he lowered the climber off the end of the rope?

Which route?

Tradiban...you're an insensitive, weak minded git.
Tina...Thanks for your post and insight.

Tradiban wrote:

Total bummer these guys inconvenienced you and assaulted your sensibilities.

Dude.  You suck.   

Tradiwahtevr 0/10

Bill Lawry wrote: Do you mean that the belayer tried to lower to that ledge to down climb.  But their 60m rope was too short and so he lowered the climber off the end of the rope?

Which route?

Ok ....  ok. I withdraw the questions.  

You’re kinda talking shit on them. I know it’s hard to approach people to tell them to do things the right way but if you see sketchy stuff offer advice. You could have offered for them to rap on your rope and remind them to tie a knot in the end of their rope. Thanks for helping with the rescue but don’t bash people afterwards to look all high and mighty that you’re a safer climber when you don’t give advice. 

Tristan Burnham wrote: You’re kinda talking shit on them. I know it’s hard to approach people to tell them to do things the right way but if you see sketchy stuff offer advice. You could have offered for them to rap on your rope and remind them to tie a knot in the end of their rope. Thanks for helping with the rescue but don’t bash people afterwards to look all high and mighty that you’re a safer climber when you don’t give advice. 

Agreed. Also @Tradiban don't be a piece of shit

Tristan Burnham wrote: You’re kinda talking shit on them. I know it’s hard to approach people to tell them to do things the right way but if you see sketchy stuff offer advice. You could have offered for them to rap on your rope and remind them to tie a knot in the end of their rope. Thanks for helping with the rescue but don’t bash people afterwards to look all high and mighty that you’re a safer climber when you don’t give advice. 

Kinda long-winded but Tristin said it better than me.  

Tristan Burnham wrote: You’re kinda talking shit on them. I know it’s hard to approach people to tell them to do things the right way but if you see sketchy stuff offer advice. You could have offered for them to rap on your rope and remind them to tie a knot in the end of their rope. Thanks for helping with the rescue but don’t bash people afterwards to look all high and mighty that you’re a safer climber when you don’t give advice. 

You can offer advice but, seriously, how many times do people actually accept it?  Take the OP's post in the spirit in which it was intended.

Fat Dad wrote:

You can offer advice but, seriously, how many times do people actually accept it?  Take the OP's post in the spirit in which it was intended.

I got a ton of advice doing stupid shit when I first started. I owe a lot to the old locals at Stoney Point who threw out some tips and let people know when they were doing stupid stuff. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a mentor or have tons of training from a guide. Everyone on MP is quick to throw out advice, just do it in person too. Even if it’s just bad style like TRing through the rings instead of your own draws, it’s safe but try and educate people in the moment if you can. If they don’t take the advice then that’s on them, but it’s worth a shot. 

Tristan Burnham wrote: You’re kinda talking shit on them. I know it’s hard to approach people to tell them to do things the right way but if you see sketchy stuff offer advice. You could have offered for them to rap on your rope and remind them to tie a knot in the end of their rope. Thanks for helping with the rescue but don’t bash people afterwards to look all high and mighty that you’re a safer climber when you don’t give advice. 

Sloppy Second wrote: She is high and mighty relative to these idiots.

It's not her responsibility to suggest every possible safety improvement to complete strangers.

And do you really think they would have listened to her advice?

Obviously not every accident can be prevented, but it doesn’t hurt to throw out advice. And yeah they are complete strangers, and I don’t want to sound like a hippy, but we’re all climbers and you could have been sharing a beer at a campfire with them the night before. 

Saw a similar thing about to happen the other day. I walked over and tied a knot in the rope for the belayer. I didn't suggest or ask. He thanked me and was surprised when the knot hit his hand at the end of the lower. His partner was pretty happy about that knot as well. 

We need more Max’s and less Josh’s in the climbing world. 

Sorry you had to experience that, sounds rough. Hope the guy came out OK. 

lots of assholes out there that won't listen to advice and get mad at you for trying to give it. you do the best you can . you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.. Interestingly enough  the several times I have run into these kinds of situations when in the company of professional surch and rescue types they seem to put their heads down, blinders on and insist we leave before we have to go to work.... 

Always tie a knot in the end of your rope! Either by itself or tied into your belayer! It's not that hard and could save your life. Sorry to hear about that type of accident! It hits a little close to home....Ive decked and crushed my dome and couldn't walk out. I had the luxury service of a navy helicopter to come and pick me up. 

I’ll just say that anger and self righteousness can be equally dangerous in the climbing scene. It tends to take up valuable real estate in one’s brain, real estate that could instead be used for anticipating and so solving potential problems.

Benjamin Chapman wrote: Tradiban...you're an insensitive, weak minded git.
Tina...Thanks for your post and insight.

Are you so self-centered that you can't notice the self-centeredness of her post?!