Manufactured routes at Ten Sleep being called out

2 years in a row, around the July 4th gathering, hordes of climbers freaked out the prairie falcons that were nesting in the Valhalla sector, causing the chicks to jump out of the nest way before they were ready to fly. I saw the poor little guys on the ground. At least they probably died a quick death from getting eaten by someone's dog the next day. Hearing that poor mother bird's voice after she had been crying all day was really sad. She screamed so much that her call was hoarse and didn't sound like a normal prairie falcon.

Much more serious in my opinion than drilling some holds on some routes. Probably more of a threat to access as well.

Go Back to Super Topo wrote:Louie’s side of the story even states that he wanted to make the climbing “consistent” and admitted to drilled sections of hard (13+) climbing to make the route consistent 5.11-5.12 movement. 

Can someone point me to the source of these admissions by Louie?

Eric Chabot wrote: 2 years in a row, around the July 4th gathering, hordes of climbers freaked out the prairie falcons that were nesting in the Valhalla sector, causing the chicks to jump out of the nest way before they were ready to fly. I saw the poor little guys on the ground. At least they probably died a quick death from getting eaten by someone's dog the next day. Hearing that poor mother bird's voice after she had been crying all day was really sad. She screamed so much that her call was hoarse and didn't sound like a normal prairie falcon.

Much more serious in my opinion than drilling some holds on some routes. Probably more of a threat to access as well.

Go Back to Super Topo wrote: 1. Louie gluing and chipping holds is not something that happens 3 years ago and then never again. It’s an ongoing thing and has in fact expressed that this practice is “ok” in ten sleep. Also, this is not the first area he’s done this to, but also several areas in CA. This is not an isolated event that happened three years ago and was “randomly” brought it, but rather it has been culminating for 3 years and has now reached a breaking point as Louie has a new guidebook coming out which will only promote this behavior more. There have even been a few other parties attempting to develop new routes (near the ark/city of gold) that were caught in the act, who literally said that they thought drilling pockets was an ok practice in Ten Sleep. 

I would be inclined to view his history in CA as a separate issue. I’m aware that he had earned the nickname Gluey, but I’m also aware that a lot of single pitch sport climbing in CA is on utter choss that needs reinforcement. 
Funky town is the example that gets pulled out as the most egregious manufactured routes, and that was several years ago, so to me it sounds like he has moderated his approach since then (and maybe he needs to dial it back further, I don’t  know... that is the part of the story that is not clear to me. But if he is still doing an ongoing route manufacturing, it is not clear to me why there aren’t specific examples from later times.)

3. Mike Snyder is the only other “major” developer in Ten Sleep that is agreeing with Louie. I would agree with hearing the “other sides” opinion if it weren’t already documented in the meetings between all parties involved. To me it seems the og developers (Aaron, Charlie, JB, etc) have taken it upon themselves to “preserve” (read: have gotten offended) with the new school developers (Louie and Mike). I think if Louie and/or Mike made a public statement it would help things immensely, and honestly if Louie donated a chunk to the BCC I think this would go away almost entirely (not saying he should or should not, but rather it would make things go away quickly). Which, makes you wonder why they haven’t 

Maybe they will? I saw that BCC is trying to do ongoing round table discussions. Hopefully something good will come out of it. 

I also agree with the last statement, although I would err on the side of removing Funky Town from mountain project, I’m ok with either, if it draws crowds away from the other crowded areas then I can get behind it  

This is a bit disingenuous? “I’m not ok with chipping, but hey, it will draw people away from the crowded area...”

Again, I think the issue with so many is not so much chipping and gluing, but how much of it went down, in the way it went down, and the promotion by Louie throughout the rock ranch. 

I think the issue is with both? 

Lena chita wrote: I would be inclined to view his history in CA as a separate issue. I’m aware that he had earned the nickname Gluey, but I’m also aware that a lot of single pitch sport climbing in CA is on utter choss that needs reinforcement. 
Funky town is the example that gets pulled out as the most egregious manufactured routes, and that was several years ago, so to me it sounds like he has moderated his approach since then (and maybe he needs to dial it back further, I don’t  know... that is the part of the story that is not clear to me. But if he is still doing an ongoing route manufacturing, it is not clear to me why there aren’t specific examples from later times.)
Maybe they will? I saw that BCC is trying to do ongoing round table discussions. Hopefully something good will come out of it. 
This is a bit disingenuous? “I’m not ok with chipping, but hey, it will draw people away from the crowded area...”

I think the issue is with both? 

Funky Town has been an ongoing development over several years, he didn’t do all this 3 years ago and leave it alone. He has been adding to it for years/seasons. He has routes there as late as last season. Regardless of the time frame he chipped, drilled, and glued multiple routes and sections that did not need to be manufactured or comfortized. I’m curious as to why you are, seemingly, defending these actions?

I agree, however, I feel like a public statement would have been more effective at this point, rather than meeting at TSB with 20-30 other people (max). Especially for Louie, who has sponsors, gyms, and a company with his name directly connected to. 

Disingenuous, maybe, I view it as mitigating crowds. I will not climb there, however, the bolts are already there and if you are ok with supporting Louie’s actions (albeit, in a roundabout manner) then go for it, the damage is done. Chopping bolts would create more damage and dispersing crowds will help the impact at some of the more trafficked walls like Slavery, Shinto, etc. so I’m fine with it. I’m more concerned with holding Louie accountable for past actions and that this does not become commonplace moving forward. 

Go Back to Super Topo wrote:
Funky Town has been an ongoing development over several years, he didn’t do all this 3 years ago and leave it alone. He has been adding to it for years/seasons. He has routes there as late as last season. Regardless of the time frame he chipped, drilled, and glued multiple routes and sections that did not need to be manufactured or comfortized. I’m curious as to why you are, seemingly, defending these actions?

Not so much defending these actions, as feeling that the statements I’m hearing from one side might be overblown/overstated, and trying to get a better picture. 

As I said, I’ve never been to Funky town, and haven’t been to Tensleep recently, but when I see the exact same few pictures circulating in multiple places, as examples of manufactured pockets, there is a suspicious part of my brain that wonders if this is a sampling of 100s of such holds, or a grand sum total of all the infractions. 

It isn’t to say that 4 drilled pockets are ok, but 200 are too many. It is just that I personally have no frame of reference here, and I would feel differently about someone who got carried away, drilled a few routes, and promised not to do it anymore, vs. someone who says screw you, I’ll keep drilling and you can’t stop me. 

I agree, however, I feel like a public statement would have been more effective at this point, rather than meeting at TSB with 20-30 other people (max). Especially for Louie, who has sponsors, gyms, and a company.

Disingenuous, maybe, I view it as mitigating crowds. I will not climb there, however, the bolts are already there and if you are ok with supporting Louie’s actions (albeit, in a roundabout manner) then go for it, the damage is done. Chopping bolts would create more damage and dispersing crowds will help the impact at some of the more trafficked walls like Slavery, Shinto, etc. so I’m fine with it. I’m more concerned with holding Louie accountable for past actions and that this does not become commonplace moving forward. 

I think we are on the same page here. I would like to see it not happen again going forward. 

Spurt climbers made this bed, now they don't want to sleep in it. I suggest learning trad.

At least it isn't Mongolia: 

Andrew McQuillen wrote: At least it isn't Mongolia: 

...or Mount Charleston

I climbed at Gluey's shit pile quarry down in SoCal when I lived there. I guess it is okay, philosophically, to put up chipped shit piles in a quarry. Yes they suck but so does Riverside so whatever.

But Ten Sleep? What a pathetic wanker drilling shit down to his level.

Yes I have done countless FAs. I have made the sausage. Yes I have comfortized a few holds. Yes I have reinforced a few holds. But I bet you a new bosch you wouldn't be able to tell.

Gluey is a sloppy hack with delusions of grandeur and should be stopped.

Haha, Mobes doesn't realize 90% of the routes in Yosemite the trad capital have been chipped with "creative" pinning.

. Mobes wrote: Spurt climbers made this bed, now they don't want to sleep in it. I suggest learning trad.

The captain is chipped, Zion is chipped, eldo is chipped. 

Deez Nuts wrote: Haha, Mobes doesn't realize 90% of the routes in Yosemite the trad capital have been chipped with "creative" pinning.

Haha, I'm fine with the many beds I lay in. Whether it was God,  the stonemasters or Louis I'll still climb it and not whine on the webz with a fake name.

That's an unfortunate name.

The difference is that (most) of those “90% of routes in Yosemite” were unclimbable without chipping whereas the majority of routes in TS that were chipped were completely climbable, but chipped to make them easier grades. 

The main difference is Yosemite is a world class destination and Tensleep is a sharp chosspile of mediocre routes that caters to mediocre gym climbers. Apples and oranges

Na. The real difference is Gluey recently moved to TS to glue, drill, sell guidebooks, and move on to the next business deal, and the locals (at TS and other places) have asked him to stop.

 Tensleeps locals don't give a crap, they worry more about the cows,sheep and spurt climbers in $$$ vans from CO trying to bivy on their property for free.

Competition for guide books is always entertaining, . Speaking of that I wonder if that new guide for Yosemite is any closer to being released.
Woot woot!

Seems the same could be said about any rural area, if you wanted to be an ignorant dick about it.

Remember when hangdogging was unethical?
get called out for rap-bolting?
Make America the 80s Again!

Is this the new normal?