Petzl removable bolts

Jon Nelson wrote:

See M. Hanna's post above. The Titen screws also come in 1/2". 

I've used many 3/8" of them, usually for permanent placement, but occasionally move one to a better location. 

Those look terrifying. Maybe in harder rock, but sandstone, no thanks.

Ma Ja wrote:

Maybe so, but it helped me a lot. I wish there was a cheap option like the Triplex that are 1/2". I hate buying two sizes of bits for .07" of difference.

The cobra brand fasteners use a very similar design to the triplex. I get a 1/2 bolt back every time.

Decidedly NOT terrifying.

I was in Hell's Canyon last weekend and got a chance to test on medium limestone common to the area. This bolt (3/8" x 3 ss Titen with Fixe Duplex hanger) was loaded 3 times, 5000 lbs, 3500 lbs, and 10,000 lbs. Maxed out the test rig without failure. In granite with a different test rig we took several up to 12,000 lbs axial with a broken test rig.  When you do the bond strength max for epoxy anchors, the same embedment and rod diameter in concrete shows an axial pullout of around 7000 lbs. I found some coarse grained sandstone samples I plan on testing this weekend, and will of course forward the results.  We discussed this product at length in a previous thread about Cobra bolts.

Rob warden The space lizard wrote:

The cobra brand fasteners use a very similar design to the triplex. I get a 1/2 bolt back every time.

https://www.cobraanchors.com/en/super-sleeve-11824.html

This Cobra Super Sleeve looks promising. 1/2" x 3 3/4". The specs aren't great, but good enough for swinging around on. I always climb through the moves on a new route, so I'd be comfortable TR falling on a SWL of 1525lbs, which converts to 6.8ish KN. Plus there will be two. Plus SWL are typically many times lower* than failure load.

edit*

Remember that your quoted strength is likely derived from ~3000 psi concrete. Sandstone may be considerably less. Might be more "temporary" than ideal. :)

I think I have a couple Cobras, I'll test them in sandstone this weekend.

MH

M Hanna wrote: Remember that your quoted strength is likely derived from ~3000 psi concrete. Sandstone may be considerably less. Might be more "temporary" than ideal. :)

I think I have a couple Cobras, I'll test them in sandstone this weekend.

MH

Thanks, but I just realized that the Cobras may not come all the way out. What Im looking for is a reliable 1/2" anchor that can be easily removed AND reused so that Glue Ins can then be permanently installed. I don't want to bang in anything that could interfere with a 4" Twist Bolt glue in,

Ma Ja wrote:

What Im looking for is a reliable 1/2" anchor that can be easily removed AND reused 

It's already been said but what you want is the Climb Tech 1/2" RBs

M Hanna wrote: Decidedly NOT terrifying.

I was in Hell's Canyon last weekend and got a chance to test on medium limestone common to the area. This bolt (3/8" x 3 ss Titen with Fixe Duplex hanger) was loaded 3 times, 5000 lbs, 3500 lbs, and 10,000 lbs. Maxed out the test rig without failure. In granite with a different test rig we took several up to 12,000 lbs axial with a broken test rig.  When you do the bond strength max for epoxy anchors, the same embedment and rod diameter in concrete shows an axial pullout of around 7000 lbs. I found some coarse grained sandstone samples I plan on testing this weekend, and will of course forward the results.  We discussed this product at length in a previous thread about Cobra bolts.

Thanks for sharing your research and testing on these anchors with the community. The Cobra bolts thread is a good read. 

Derek Lawrence wrote:

It's already been said but what you want is the Climb Tech 1/2" RBs

If they were guaranteed (warranty replacements) to be removable I'd get them, but I know how easily they get stuck in my local rock. They're WAY too expensive to leave in place. If they've been redesigned in the last couple of years, then I'll check them out.

Thanks Bobby-

I've always been really interested in a 1 piece removable/maintainable installation, and the outlook is good on many fronts. I hope to bring some install and testing videos, as well as much data on various stones in the coming months now that spring has sprung.

MH

M Hanna wrote: Thanks Bobby-

I've always been really interested in a 1 piece removable/maintainable installation, and the outlook is good on many fronts. I hope to bring some install and testing videos, as well as much data on various stones in the coming months now that spring has sprung.

MH

I would love to see installation and testing videos on these bolts. 

I just ordered a box of the zink plated Titen's to play with this summer as temporary anchors. I am interested to see how they work in person. 

Ma Ja wrote:

If they were guaranteed (warranty replacements) to be removable I'd get them, but I know how easily they get stuck in my local rock. They're WAY too expensive to leave in place. If they've been redesigned in the last couple of years, then I'll check them out.

I haven't had a problem with them. They don't remove like a cam. You use a punch and hit with palm of your hand but often hit the punch with a rock or hammer. If you just yank on the trigger the swage will break. Think stuck nut and using a nut tool. 

M Hanna wrote: Decidedly NOT terrifying.

I was in Hell's Canyon last weekend and got a chance to test on medium limestone common to the area. This bolt (3/8" x 3 ss Titen with Fixe Duplex hanger) was loaded 3 times, 5000 lbs, 3500 lbs, and 10,000 lbs. Maxed out the test rig without failure. In granite with a different test rig we took several up to 12,000 lbs axial with a broken test rig.  When you do the bond strength max for epoxy anchors, the same embedment and rod diameter in concrete shows an axial pullout of around 7000 lbs. I found some coarse grained sandstone samples I plan on testing this weekend, and will of course forward the results.  We discussed this product at length in a previous thread about Cobra bolts.

I’m stoked you tested these.  My questions are

What size hole on the hanger fits over the threads?
For construction applications, These are meant to be placed with an impact driver. Do you install with a hand wrench, hex attachment for your drill, or a separate impact driver?
Glad to see the relatively high strength ratings. 

Ma Ja wrote:

https://www.cobraanchors.com/en/super-sleeve-11824.html

This Cobra Super Sleeve looks promising. 1/2" x 3 3/4". The specs aren't great, but good enough for swinging around on. I always climb through the moves on a new route, so I'd be comfortable TR falling on a SWL of 1525lbs, which converts to 6.8ish KN. Plus there will be two. Plus SWL are typically many times higher than failure loads.

Swl is 1/5 of Ultimate breaking strength?  I know it gets  weird how its calculated sometimes. 

MHanana, those are the dewalt concrete screws yes?
How was it on the impact driving it into granite?

Darren Mabe wrote:

I haven't had a problem with them. They don't remove like a cam. You use a punch and hit with palm of your hand but often hit the punch with a rock or hammer. If you just yank on the trigger the swage will break. Think stuck nut and using a nut tool. 

Gotcha. Ima tell em you said there's a warranty if they get stuck!

No these are Simpson Titen HD in 316 Stainless 3/8 x 3"

Here's a quick little video on a bored snowy day. Compact Darrington granite from my locale:

Titen in granite

MH

bus driver wrote:

I’m stoked you tested these.  My questions are

What size hole on the hanger fits over the threads?
For construction applications, These are meant to be placed with an impact driver. Do you install with a hand wrench, hex attachment for your drill, or a separate impact driver?
Glad to see the relatively high strength ratings. 

I use a 1/2 hanger. The short ones can be driven as temp anchors for ground up on lead stuff, but the 3" model requires the impact driver which weighs about 1.5 lbs.

MH

Thanks for the video.  I tried to install the Hilti version with a wrench and couldn’t.  

It would be optimal to use a Chuck like this with a socket so you could use the same drill. But I don’t know if the rock drills have much torque. Hammer drillling a hole in the rock doesn’t need any.

Yeah not nearly enough torque. I have also found that the cross tipped bits drill a rounder hole rather than the 2 chisel that imparts an oval bore. Filling the hole with water seems to be the key to success. It acts as a cutting fluid and also expels the slurry as its driven in. Hilti makes a nice product but at 9.00 US ea, I'm not buying. The Simpsons in 316 cost around $3.70.

Mods, please feel free to move this to a new thread if needed as this topic is somewhat divergent from the OP's question...

MH

Previously discussed here:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/114253396/petzl-coeur-pulse-vs-climbtech-rb-anchors#ForumMessage-114415105

The use of a 3 or 4 tipped drill bit is very specific, as is the diameter.