Great deals on bolts, hangers, and other hardware

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/116116739/photos-of-beautiful-hardware?page=2

^  Cabot Steward shows a recently developed method for removing some types of glue in bolts without a blow torch. Not sure how this would word for straight leg (Fixe) or twist bolts?

eli poss wrote: somehow the idea of carrying a blowtorch up there with me and then using it right next to rope doesn't exactly sound very appealing. Call me crazy but I think I'd rather be removing expansion bolts than glue ins. 

Okay, you're crazy.    Choose the devil you know, eh?    

Thread the rope through a 2' piece of garden hose.  It'll slide up and down with you and protect the rope.  

Jaren Watson wrote: Bump. Looking to order hangers and expansion bolts in about three weeks.

What kind of bolts? I've got too many wedge bolts at the moment so if your placing in hard rock then I could part with some of those. If you like Jim's rod hangers, you might PM bobby to see if the group buy for team tough is still open or if he's already placed the order.

Jaren Watson wrote:

I'm looking for wedge bolts. I don't have any experience with other bolt types, and I don't feel comfortable "experimenting" without someone showing me hands-on how to do it (cue that's what s/he said joke). I'm working in high-quality limestone.

Just go Ebay for Redding Fasteners. Consider using 1/2" for an expected crux bolt. Use SS only. They are cheap enough.

Jaren Watson wrote:

I'm looking for wedge bolts. I don't have any experience with other bolt types, and I don't feel comfortable "experimenting" without someone showing me hands-on how to do it (cue that's what s/he said joke). I'm working in high-quality limestone.

How many do you need? I've got a box of 50 powers 3/8" by 2.75" SS wedge bolts and I wouldn't mind parting with like 20 or 30 of them. 

If you need more than the 20 or 30 that Eli has, I also have some Stainless Hilti KB3 or KBTZ 3/8” by 5” inch for sale; $3 each
I have 400 available to sell.  $3 is my cost; I am not interested in selling for less or in quantities less than 20.

Shipping is free in the 48. Your choice between KB3 or KBTZ.

All are 5 inches long and 3/8 inch diameter.  A standard length bit works fine with these; just drill the whole way.

dnoB ekiM wrote:
All are 5 inches long and 3/8 inch diameter.  A standard length bit works fine with these; just drill the whole way.

5 inches?!  Why so long?

Jaren Watson wrote:

I’m looking to get at least 100, possibly 200. Thanks for the offer, though.

I would keep an eye on on ebay. That's where I got the powers studs from and irrc, it worked out to be around 85 cents per bolt + shipping. I think they also had boxes of 100 that were even cheaper. I like the powers wedge bolts. Perhaps not as high quality or craftsmanship as hilti but more than enough to get the job done and at a pretty reasonable price. 

John Byrnes wrote:

5 inches?!  Why so long?

Why not?  I do not see the downside.  

After all, you should see the choss we bolt!  Jaren took the more obvious joke already.  Joking aside, mainly I have a bunch of these because I have been able to source them easier than other sizes.  I also have 3" and 3.75", but I have no excess of those.

After seeing some of the garbage bolts used here over the years and trying a few bolt types myself (including Fixe and Powers), I find the stainless Hilti KB3 to be clearly superior to other wedge-bolts.  And thanks to Gregger Man's brilliant work in developing wedge removal technology, I am also comfortable that these are the most sustainable choice as of today.  The stainless will last many-many decades here in the desert, and will be easy to replace with a spinner and doodad when the times comes for those climbers (who are yet to be born) to remove and replace them.  

So, when I find them at a decent price and any acceptable length (>=3")...I grab them...however, I may have gone a bit overboard recently!  

Eventually, they will get used...so much choss left out there.  For the real choss...I have 1/2" by 5.5"!

dnoB ekiM wrote: I find the stainless Hilti KB3 to be clearly superior to other wedge-bolts.  And thanks to Gregger Man's brilliant work in developing wedge removal technology, I am also comfortable that these are the most sustainable choice as of today.  The stainless will last many-many decades here in the desert, and will be easy to replace with a spinner and doodad when the times comes for those climbers (who are yet to be born) to remove and replace them.  

  

Are you confident that the KB3s will be pulled as easily as a powerstud or redhead, despite having a “petal” shaped clip?
Here’s a photo of the two styles I’m thinking of (new on the left, old on the right)

Drew Nevius wrote: Are you confident that the KB3s will be pulled as easily as a powerstud or redhead, despite having a “petal” shaped clip?
Here’s a photo of the two styles I’m thinking of (new on the left, old on the right)

I have pulled them myself without issue. 

I ask because I tried removing a freshly placed one in a practice block and had issues, which we guessed was because of the different clip design. Glad to hear you’ve been successful with them!

Was it stainless?  I hear stainless actually is easier than plated.  The KB3 clip is not much different (ridges versus circle bump) than the older KB2.  I am pretty certain hundreds of KB style bolts have been effectively pulled over the years.

I taught myself to pull bolts on a test block using these KB3s.  Never had an issue, but I only pulled 4 or 5.

My experience with other wedge bolts have all been a bit more difficult but that’s due to rust and working on a rope.

dnoB ekiM wrote:

Why not?  I do not see the downside.  

I've posted this many times.  Usually there aren't any upsides but there are many downsides:

1) Takes more battery power.   Depending on the type of rock and the number of holes, you need to hump-in more battery packs, if you have them, which can be a PITA if you're far from the car.  And running dry partway through the job is an even bigger PITA.

2) Takes more time to drill, brush & blow; again, depending on rock and the number of holes, you may run out of daylight/time and miss happy hour (a serious fucking problem!).

3) Puts more wear on the bit.  Dull bits take more power & time: see above.

4) It's overall more work.  I'm usually tired enough at the end of the day.

After all, you should see the choss we bolt!  Jaren took the more obvious joke already.  Joking aside, mainly I have a bunch of these because I have been able to source them easier than other sizes.  I also have 3" and 3.75", but I have no excess of those.

After seeing some of the garbage bolts used here over the years and trying a few bolt types myself (including Fixe and Powers), I find the stainless Hilti KB3 to be clearly superior to other wedge-bolts.  And thanks to Gregger Man's brilliant work in developing wedge removal technology, I am also comfortable that these are the most sustainable choice as of today.  The stainless will last many-many decades here in the desert, and will be easy to replace with a spinner and doodad when the times comes for those climbers (who are yet to be born) to remove and replace them.  

So, when I find them at a decent price and any acceptable length (>=3")...I grab them...however, I may have gone a bit overboard recently!  

Eventually, they will get used...so much choss left out there.  For the real choss...I have 1/2" by 5.5"!

4) If you're worried about choss, a 3 or 3.5" glue-in is a far better choice.  

John Byrnes wrote: I've posted this many times.  Usually there aren't any upsides but there are many downsides:

1) Takes more battery power.   Depending on the type of rock and the number of holes, you need to hump-in more battery packs, if you have them, which can be a PITA if you're far from the car.  And running dry partway through the job is an even bigger PITA.

2) Takes more time to drill, brush & blow; again, depending on rock and the number of holes, you may run out of daylight/time and miss happy hour (a serious fucking problem!).

3) Puts more wear on the bit.  Dull bits take more power & time: see above.

4) It's overall more work.  I'm usually tired enough at the end of the day.

4) If you're worried about choss, a 3 or 3.5" glue-in is a far better choice.  

I agree that glue-ins would be a much better choice for choss... but sometimes I just want a loooong bolt to ensure I get through a hollow surface flake or somethibg similar when, in general, the rock is bomber (i.e. granite).  I have used a few of these 1/2 × 7" Hiltis (seen here next to a POS 2 3/4" thunderstud) for these situations. I know it's a "bit" overkill but it ain't gonna fail.

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I just wanted to point out that Team Tough 10mm x 80mm SS wedge bolts (that translates to roughly 3/8" x 3 1/4") are $2.10 individually, and cheaper if you buy them in bulk. These things are 316L stainless steel, just like the Petzl Coeur bolts. You MUST use 10mm bits for them (3/8" bits can be 0.5mm too small), which Team Tough also sells. I would choose these or the Petzl Coeur Stainless over Powerstuds and Redheads (don't use these), and they are at least as good as the KB3s, but with a more corrosion-resistant alloy compared to 304 series. For drilling granite on lead, I don't think there is a better deal for higher quality hardware. They also sell longer 10mm bolts as well as 12mm bolts for a good price.
Also, be sure to check out their 8mm rod hangers for 3/8" or 1/2" bolts. These things are $4 each and awesome backcountry rap anchors, 45kn, and super lightweight compared to any permanent rap setup I have seen.

One of the major factors to consider when buying wedge bolts is whether they have "rolled" threads or "cut" threads.  Rolled threads are much stronger than cut threads making rolled threads the preferred style.

This is the source of Team Tough/Bolt Products wedge bolts. I contacted Jim to confirm that the thread is rolled, but they certainly look rolled judging by the dullness of the thread and the lack of tool marks. The 10x80mm bolts are KDK-E 10x80

A link to a discussion about wedge bolts.

Kelley Gilleran wrote: https://www.confast.com/product-3-8-x-2-1-4-stainless-steel-wedge-anchor

Not bad...$1.57 ea. plus free shipping

Just in case this link was missed.