Pepper spray for dogs

Buck Rio wrote:

I think it is a particular problem with my Thunder .380. The trigger sometimes does not rebound and you are left with a chunk of metal and plastic in your hand. It has been completely gone over by two different gunsmiths, and they wanted to completely replace the trigger mechanist, which would cost more than the worth of the pistol. 

I own so many quality pistols, why would I carry one I don't trust???

I guess you win some you loose some. 

Buck, I hear those have an issue with the extractor.

Bill.... you can have one! Just not one that holds a ton of bullets. I just got the dream gun of the California congress..... a single shot .22 rifle! One at a time! I do get Quarter size groups at 50yds. Be ready for the state to jack you around and loose or miss file your paperwork.... 

Good cop

I used to climb a lot with a guy who had a dog that would snap at anybody that would come near. Naturally, people were terrified. Everybody who didn't know the dog would see the dog, go up to it and try to make friends, because people love dogs. The owner would make no attempt to restrain the dog. I have always been able to make friends with any dog because I like them and they know it. I would control the dog, and the owner seemed to appreciate it. Here's the deal: Most pepper spray manufactured for people, dogs, or other likely attackers is intentionally made with a fairly weak formula. That way, it won't kill the attacker, and the manufacturer won't have to deal with a lawsuit for making a "Lethal" weapon that should only stop an attack. In other words, pepper spray is usually ineffective. If the dog has been sprayed before, it might turn a bluff charge into an attack. Bear spray is formulated to have an effect without killing the animal. Bears cannot sue, and they don't have rude owners who don't understand how frightening it is when Cujo sinks his rabid fangs into a leg, crushes bones, and then shakes until the leg comes off, and then delights in the arterial spray of blood on his face. When I went to school to get a CDL, the lady who ran the course told us that most companies require their employees to be defenseless. (They don't allow them to have weapons, including pepper spray.) She recommended wasp spray, saying it was the exact same formulation as bear spray.  Don't go out and buy bear spray then blast the lazy, catatonic, toothless dog who's passed out from exhaustion when he stepped down from the M.G. Don't listen to any advice on this website or any other. Cough up the money and ask a lawyer before you do anything. But if I could give advice, and I was stupid enough to think people would follow it, I would say "DON"T BE A BABY RUTH IN THE SWIMMING POOL! CONTROLL YOUR DAMMNED MUTT!!!!!!!!"

So I have been going climbing with dogs for almost 30 years, and have never had issues.  However, fairly recently, my dog was attacked on an approach trail, while peeing and on her leash, by four off leash pit bulls. When I moved to save her, they turned on me, and it took me several minutes to stop the attack. The owners did nothing, and both I and my dog ended up being stitched and stapled back together in the hospital.

The whole incident occurred so fast, that if I had a spray or firearm I'd never get to it. Now I always have a walking stick or a clip stick, as I believe that would be much more effective.  That said, I did carry an unholstered M9 while on runs in Iraq due to all the stray dogs, but they rarely, if ever got close. I am not at the point of carrying an unholstered weapon at the crag though.

Redyns wrote: i would f*cking kill anyone who sprayed my dog.  period.

pepper spray endangers others. let's assume you deter the attack effectively. that dog survives to threaten someone else who may not have pepper spray. it's not the responsibility of anyone to understand dog body language or to understand how to interact with dogs. the dog is the responsibility of its owner. if my warmup makes me seem like a threat, i don't have to change. i don't have to make any assumptions about what the dog is or isn't about to do.

what if you find a human murderer with bodies in the basement and after surviving you simply go home rather than call the police. wouldn't a responsible response be to at least notify the authorities so that the threat could be neutralized? at the very least, if a known aggressive dog attacked you, it'd be an actionable offense for you to pursue legally.
https://www.kornberglawfirm.com/Dog-Attacks/Aggressive-Dogs/

i know a lot of people value their pets. this society ensures constitutional rights to its humans, not their pets. as a result, if you are attacked, please do not use spray. please ensure the safety of others and make sure the dog will not be a threat to anyone else.

Abandon Moderation - You asked if I contacted the owners. At first I just skiied away because I was pissed off and I didn't want to deal with it. But when I got back to the car my wife shamed me into skiing back up and making sure the dog had it's shots. Nice people, dog has never bitten anybody before, had the tags etc..

Love this thread......was the dog that charged you in an area that requires dogs to be leashed? I think pepper spray is definitely reasonable for an unreasonable charge.  
    I have Been bitten and been charged. I bet the spray would work really well on an unreasonable dog owner to boot. 

Trad Man wrote:

Good cop

That's awesome. The dogs kind of want to attack you, but they still kind of want to go for a ride...

The pepper spray seemed to do exactly what you would want. Get the dog to back off but not blind it, etc.

You see him holding something between him and the dog I'm pretty sure it's one of those stun batons. Seems ideal because then you're basically assured safety, but then you have to carry around a baton...

abandon moderation wrote:

I'm actually serious about this. I'm not trying to harm the dog, which is why pepper spray seems ideal (it's temporary).

I imagine that yes, the problem with pepper spray is that you may need to deal with the dog owners who may or may not care about their dog more than some rando. It appears they do have dog specific pepper spray so of course, it's for dogs.

I don't think I want to get bitten, even if I get money out of it.

Say I see you approaching me and I am suspicious of humans. So I use the pepper spray Because of my own personal thoughts and it turns out you were minding your own business doing nothing wrong.

How open to a lawsuit does that leave me? If you spray a dog that was doing nothing wrong what other consequences could that entail? 
There are tons of shitty dogs, but there are also a ton of incompetent morons who shouldn’t be walking around. I had someone almost hit my dog because he “looked” scary. He has shown zero aggression toward a human ever. My friend also has a Malinois who is a working dog that people freak out about (he is a Rescue dog). Personally if you spray a dog who didn’t attack you just expect someone to possibly attack you as it could potentially puts you as the aggressor if you over react in a situation.
Pepper spray/firearms/knife/etc should only be used when you 1000% know the situation has no other way out of it and you know in fact you are in danger. 

Edit: if you sprayed my dog who wasn’t attacking you, i’d React as you were attacking my family which means you now have a firearm or knife heading your way
If a 6yr old child hits me or run on me does this allow me to punt him? He obviously has less training than my dog and serves less purpose than a rescue animal.

PosiDave wrote:

Personally if you spray a dog who didn’t attack you just expect someone to possibly attack you as it could potentially puts you as the aggressor if you over react in a situation.

Pepper spray/firearms/knife/etc should only be used when you 1000% know the situation has no other way out of it and you know in fact you are in danger. 

Edit: if you sprayed my dog who wasn’t attacking you, i’d React as you were attacking my family which means you now have a firearm or knife heading your way
If a 6yr old child hits me or run on me does this allow me to punt him? He obviously has less training than my dog and serves less purpose than a rescue animal.

How about you put your dog on a leash when there  are other people around? 

Matt N wrote:

That mountain biker had a shit lawyer. Self defense. Done. Police have shot people for less [with zero consequences]. 

[I'm not a lawyer but I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express before]

The dog did nothing to the human and was just running on the trail (the guy assumed the dog would attack because he knew he bit another dog before).

PosiDave wrote:

Say I see you approaching me and I am suspicious of humans. So I use the pepper spray Because of my own personal thoughts and it turns out you were minding your own business doing nothing wrong.

How open to a lawsuit does that leave me? If you spray a dog that was doing nothing wrong what other consequences could that entail? 
There are tons of shitty dogs, but there are also a ton of incompetent morons who shouldn’t be walking around. I had someone almost hit my dog because he “looked” scary. He has shown zero aggression toward a human ever. My friend also has a Malinois who is a working dog that people freak out about (he is a Rescue dog). Personally if you spray a dog who didn’t attack you just expect someone to possibly attack you as it could potentially puts you as the aggressor if you over react in a situation.
Pepper spray/firearms/knife/etc should only be used when you 1000% know the situation has no other way out of it and you know in fact you are in danger. 

I understand what you're saying, but it's more like

"What if I was charging you with a knife and you're just suspicous of humans? Maybe I just wanted to show you my new knife"

But I can imagine a situation where a dog intent on biting someone gets sprayed, and the owner insists it just wanted to play. Much less likely is that the dog wanted to play, and got sprayed. Are you saying I should wait for the dog to sink in his jaws before I spray him? I can see it would eliminate some doubt though the same owner could still claim you sprayed first and that's why the dog bit you.

I guess in reality any time you defend yourself (from humans dogs or anything else) you need to act before it's too late and if you didn't correctly understand the situation you have a problem. I would rather not have to defend myself but as all the dog threads suggest the "leash war" will never be won.

edit to your edit: Yes if the 6 year old comes at me with a knife (equivalent of a dogs teeth) I think I am allowed to punt him. Being 6 years old (or a dog) doesn't mean you can try to harm people without repercussions.

A call to local Animal Control would probably prevent future incidents by a particular dog. I’ve known a person that their dog was put down after a third offense. Here’s the Boulder County Animal Control ordinance
https://assets.bouldercounty.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/ordinance-animal-control.pdf

PosiDave wrote:

Say I see you approaching me and I am suspicious of humans. So I use the pepper spray Because of my own personal thoughts and it turns out you were minding your own business doing nothing wrong.

How open to a lawsuit does that leave me? If you spray a dog that was doing nothing wrong what other consequences could that entail? 
There are tons of shitty dogs, but there are also a ton of incompetent morons who shouldn’t be walking around. I had someone almost hit my dog because he “looked” scary. He has shown zero aggression toward a human ever. My friend also has a Malinois who is a working dog that people freak out about (he is a Rescue dog). Personally if you spray a dog who didn’t attack you just expect someone to possibly attack you as it could potentially puts you as the aggressor if you over react in a situation.
Pepper spray/firearms/knife/etc should only be used when you 1000% know the situation has no other way out of it and you know in fact you are in danger. 

Edit: if you sprayed my dog who wasn’t attacking you, i’d React as you were attacking my family which means you now have a firearm or knife heading your way
If a 6yr old child hits me or run on me does this allow me to punt him? He obviously has less training than my dog and serves less purpose than a rescue animal.

You're concerned with others overreacting to your dog, but yet you're going to knife or stab someone because they used non-lethal force on your dog (who you were unwilling to leash)?

Edit to add: I appreciate your concern that people not get carried away with the idea of pepper-spraying dogs. I just think your evident willingness to resort to lethal force in a situation where it's not warranted is really scary, and, if that's really how you feel, honestly wish you would reconsider. Scares me to think people are carrying weapons to the crag and so readily willing to use them.

What would you do if someone felt bothered by your dog and asked you to leash it up or otherwise keep it away?

Trad Man wrote: Gee, I wonder what the chances are that the dog was unleashed

The dog was off leash (in a area where it is legal). Riders poach a “closed to bike” section of trail to not have to cross a busy road. 

Regardless the dog did nothing wrong and the person simply overreacted because of his issues with dogs in the past. (Which is why you need to be positive the dog is trying to bother you and you are in the right).

Chris Little wrote: Here's the deal: Most pepper spray manufactured for people, dogs, or other likely attackers is intentionally made with a fairly weak formula. That way, it won't kill the attacker, and the manufacturer won't have to deal with a lawsuit for making a "Lethal" weapon that should only stop an attack. In other words, pepper spray is usually ineffective.

None of that is correct, and any of the pepper sprays can indeed kill someone with asthma or CPOD.

When I went to school to get a CDL, the lady who ran the course told us that most companies require their employees to be defenseless. (They don't allow them to have weapons, including pepper spray.) She recommended wasp spray, saying it was the exact same formulation as bear spray.

Absolutely not true. Pepper spray active ingredient is capsaicin, the active heat ingredient from cayenne peppers, is used in the temporarily debilitating pepper spray weapons for personal protection. Canisters of pepper spray (also known as OC spray or oleoresin capsicum) dispense a solution containing capsaicin, an inflammatory agent which affects the eyes, respiratory system, skin and muscle coordination.

Wasp sprays contain pyrethrins or pyrethroids. They are derived from a species of the chrysanthemum plant and affect the nervous system. Specifically they are an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, iirc. This paralyzes the smooth muscles in the airway and lungs, leading to suffocation.

If dogs attack when they smell fear, how come I've never been bit after leading anything above 5.7? Checkmate!

I've been charged by a dog once. I was walking down an empty street at night and a dark growling shadow came sprinting up from behind, totally unprovoked. By the time I had turned and seen it, it was within a few meters, a fraction of a second from making contact. My buddy's reaction was to scream at it, which worked, but my reaction likely would've been to kick it.

I know people like to say "you're feelings don't matter," but in law, what is reasonable for an average person to feel does matter. I think it's pretty reasonable to fear for your life/limb when being charged by a dog.

PosiDave wrote:

Say I see you approaching me and I am suspicious of humans. So I use the pepper spray Because of my own personal thoughts and it turns out you were minding your own business doing nothing wrong.

How open to a lawsuit does that leave me? If you spray a dog that was doing nothing wrong what other consequences could that entail? 
There are tons of shitty dogs, but there are also a ton of incompetent morons who shouldn’t be walking around. I had someone almost hit my dog because he “looked” scary. He has shown zero aggression toward a human ever. My friend also has a Malinois who is a working dog that people freak out about (he is a Rescue dog). Personally if you spray a dog who didn’t attack you just expect someone to possibly attack you as it could potentially puts you as the aggressor if you over react in a situation.
Pepper spray/firearms/knife/etc should only be used when you 1000% know the situation has no other way out of it and you know in fact you are in danger. 

Edit: if you sprayed my dog who wasn’t attacking you, i’d React as you were attacking my family which means you now have a firearm or knife heading your way
If a 6yr old child hits me or run on me does this allow me to punt him? He obviously has less training than my dog and serves less purpose than a rescue animal.

This is summarized as "don't be a dick."

Don't be a dick as a dog owner. Don't be a dick around innocent dogs.

PosiDave wrote:

Say I see you approaching me and I am suspicious of humans. So I use the pepper spray Because of my own personal thoughts and it turns out you were minding your own business doing nothing wrong.

How open to a lawsuit does that leave me? If you spray a dog that was doing nothing wrong what other consequences could that entail? 
There are tons of shitty dogs, but there are also a ton of incompetent morons who shouldn’t be walking around. I had someone almost hit my dog because he “looked” scary. He has shown zero aggression toward a human ever. My friend also has a Malinois who is a working dog that people freak out about (he is a Rescue dog). Personally if you spray a dog who didn’t attack you just expect someone to possibly attack you as it could potentially puts you as the aggressor if you over react in a situation.
Pepper spray/firearms/knife/etc should only be used when you 1000% know the situation has no other way out of it and you know in fact you are in danger. 

Edit: if you sprayed my dog who wasn’t attacking you, i’d React as you were attacking my family which means you now have a firearm or knife heading your way
If a 6yr old child hits me or run on me does this allow me to punt him? He obviously has less training than my dog and serves less purpose than a rescue animal.

Yup, didn’t take long to compare children to dogs.