Pepper spray for dogs

PosiDave wrote:

If you pepper spray a dog, just hope it actually has attacked you (not ran toward you).  Or you will be up to your neck in legal fees.

There was a dog with a known aggression issue toward other dogs (attacked a climbers dog) that was punted by a mountain biker who thought he was going to be bitten when the dog ran up to him, that resulted in the dog needing surgery. The owner brought him to court and he had to shell out the cost of surgery. 

Gee, I wonder what the chances are that the dog was unleashed

Whether dogs are more likely to attack/bite when they "smell fear" or not I'm not sure; but it certainly is a old belief, and most of those have some truth to them.  I do know my partner, who is afraid of dogs because of an incident in her youth, is far, far more likely to have a dog we meet on a trail approach more closely and more agressively than that same dog did with me. (Often we are separated on the trial by 50-200 feet.)

After their children (and maybe their spouse), dogs are the next beloved thing to their owners. Just like their kids the dogs can do no harm and are "harmless".  So if you yell at the dog (or worse, the owner) expect the same reaction as yelling at their children!

Here in NH's & Maine's White Mtn Nat. Forest dogs must be "under control at all times".  This means on a leash, or the dog is fully capable of being controlled by voice command.  99% of the dog owners are unaware of this regulation, (and get VERY "defensive" when you try to tell them about it....remember " dog=child".) The owner of any dog that bites (or even appears to be about to attack) is prime-facie in violation, and this "adds" to your case and settlement.

Unfortunaely, NH is not a "stand your ground/ "castle" state", so if you do anything to "disuade" the dog while it appears to be about to attack you, be sure the first thing you say to ANYBODY (owner, police) is "I was in fear of my life".  

  I believe dogs are not allowed in most Nat. Parks.   

I would drop kick any animal that is charging me. A dog, a cat, a chinchilla, a turtle, a fuckin sea monkey, it doesn’t matter. People have the right to defend themselves from violent creatures. All these people trying to defend violent dogs by making excuses about the victims fear causing the aggression or the owners being bad owners are objectively wrong. I watched a teenage girl have half her cheek torn off by a Rottweiler. The dog’s owner is an amazing person and treated the dog very well. The dog had no issues with people it knew. The girl had zero inhibition and wasn’t scared or aggressive toward the dog. Try holding the tattered flesh of a teenage girls face together with your bare hands and telling her that it’s her fault and she “shouldn’t have been afraid”.

"Which makes Russ Keane a colossal moron."

Hi Eric, nice to meet you too.   I am never a 100% believer in any single version of an event; the truth is always more in the middle.   A person who is kind of sensitive to dog interaction is more likely to perceive every dog coming at him as coming threateningly.   Sometimes we create our own realities.

I'm so glad we're having another dog thread. It has probably been two months since our last one. It was way overdue.

Bear Spray..... no problem carrying it around, sold at better hunting and fishing supply stores.

And yea.... I love dogs, but if your dog growls or snarled at people.... they loose crag privilege.

Rope Byrne wrote:

I've been around dogs (aggressive and non-aggressive) my entire life and I've been bitten a few times.  Pretending that dogs smell fear and that's why they attack is naive.

Maybe that's why u have been bitten a few times. U scared bro?  Fact. i have no problem putting dogs in their place and have many times.  It helps to read the body language. Sometimes the best solution is to have the owner contain the stupid dog.

Redyns wrote: i would f*cking kill anyone who sprayed my dog.  period.

OF COURSE YOU WOULD BIG TALKER.

Its a animal just like you. Get primal and fling your feces like a chimp.

Ron O wrote: Riding my bike a dog ran out and bit me in the leg, then chased after me.
I rode out ahead and pulled out my pistol and put a round into the ground between us.
Dog stopped dead.
Owner paid for new jeans.

Pepper spray? Really?

Beretta model 21. That tiny little mouse gun has served me well. Dogs, snakes in camp, even frightened off a black bear. Never jams.

You're in my wheelhouse dude, although I prefer a meatier round than either the .25 acp or .22 LR. My personal choice is a Kahr CW9. I have never had a problem with this particular gun, goes bang every time...Any single stack sub-compact will work, as long as it goes bang every time you pull the trigger. My Bersa Thunder failed in that regard. A Glock 43 is also a very good choice, as is a 26 if you want more mag capacity.

Brandon Fields wrote: I would drop kick any animal that is charging me. A dog, a cat, a chinchilla, a turtle, a fuckin sea monkey, it doesn’t matter. People have the right to defend themselves from violent creatures. All these people trying to defend violent dogs by making excuses about the victims fear causing the aggression or the owners being bad owners are objectively wrong. I watched a teenage girl have half her cheek torn off by a Rottweiler. The dog’s owner is an amazing person and treated the dog very well. The dog had no issues with people it knew. The girl had zero inhibition and wasn’t scared or aggressive toward the dog. Try holding the tattered flesh of a teenage girls face together with your bare hands and telling her that it’s her fault and she “shouldn’t have been afraid”.

I agree with the sentiment but on the practical side from what I know you don't want to present an aggressive dog with a hand or foot to bite. Best course of action is to put something in front of them to bite that's not part of your body. Basically give them a chew toy that's not you.

Of course you're most likely going to encounter these dogs with nothing in your hands (unless you have hiking sticks or something) and it's not so easy to sling off a heavy backpack and keep it between you and the dog.

I have some idea of how to deal with aggressive dogs (at this point what climber doesn't) which I partly attribute to why I didn't get bitten, but I have a feeling some day I'll meet a slightly angrier dog. Or as happened to my partner once, walk off a cliff because you're being distracted by the dog (she was ok).

Never ceases to amaze me on these dog threads how many people seem to relish the idea of shooting, clubbing, spraying or otherwise hurting/killing animals.

Not that you should allow an animal to attack you but, c'mon people

Now if you want to do those things to the dog's owner, maybe ok...

Buck Rio wrote:

You're in my wheelhouse dude, although I prefer a meatier round than either the .25 acp or .22 LR. My personal choice is a Kahr CW9. I have never had a problem with this particular gun, goes bang every time...Any single stack sub-compact will work, as long as it goes bang every time you pull the trigger. My Bersa Thunder failed in that regard. A Glock 43 is also a very good choice, as is a 26 if you want more mag capacity.

Buck.... I have a Bersa “FireStorm” in 38ACP... works every time. 

Rick Carpenter wrote: I have sprayed a dog recently but I have found that a collapsible asp baton to be more effective. The spray, generic bear mace, can leave enough particulate matter floating about to make everyone in the area cough for awhile. However, the baton across the snoot worked for me in the latest incident. 

Well maybe if you are lucky the spray cone will hit the dog owner as well and you can claim you were just aiming at the dog.  Unfortunately the owner is usually not around.  Usually at the other end of the crag or a few pitches up.

cragmantoo wrote: Never ceases to amaze me on these dog threads how many people seem to relish the idea of shooting, clubbing, spraying or otherwise hurting/killing animals.

Not that you should allow an animal to attack you but, c'mon people

Now if you want to do those things to the dog's owner, maybe ok...

The way the legal system works you are more likely to get away with clubbing the dog than the owner, even if the owner is the one who really deserves it.

cragmantoo wrote: Never ceases to amaze me on these dog threads how many people seem to relish the idea of shooting, clubbing, spraying or otherwise hurting/killing animals.

Not that you should allow an animal to attack you but, c'mon people

Now if you want to do those things to the dog's owner, maybe ok...

I'm a huge dog guy, I have had many over the years and currently have three. I have never brought them climbing. 

I was severely mauled as a child, requiring well over 100 stiches to my face and scalp and my lip was split wide open like a cleft palate, ruining my embouchure and ending my trumpet career. It was a poodle, I did nothing to provoke it. The dog was not put down and attacked a retarded girl within the next couple months. My father was livid at the owners and I think we sued them for all of the reconstructive surgery I required. I missed a lot of second grade.

I would never shoot a dog unless it was attacking me or someone I knew. And if the owner had a problem with that, I'd defend myself against their aggression, too.

To all of the people that bring dogs to crags....it is putting your dog at risk, as well as every other person there that might be strapped and afraid of dogs. I've seen people get bit that were trying to break up a dog fight between their dog and somebody else's.  If you truly love your dog, leave it home, and give it a hug when you get back.

Bear spray question...what happens if it leaks in your pack???

Guy Keesee wrote:

Buck.... I have a Bersa “FireStorm” in 38ACP... works every time. 

I think it is a particular problem with my Thunder .380. The trigger sometimes does not rebound and you are left with a chunk of metal and plastic in your hand. It has been completely gone over by two different gunsmiths, and they wanted to completely replace the trigger mechanist, which would cost more than the worth of the pistol. 

I own so many quality pistols, why would I carry one I don't trust???

.22 not doing for you, although friends have had those rounds bounce all over their insides, then I’ll see your .45 and raise you a Beowulf. That 50 cal 550 grain round should stop everyone at the crag!

 Oh wait, that’s right.. I now live in the people’s republic of California. So no guns. I’m really organizing a protest on dogs.

Robert Hall wrote: After their children (and maybe their spouse), dogs are the next beloved thing to their owners. Just like their kids the dogs can do no harm and are "harmless".  So if you yell at the dog (or worse, the owner) expect the same reaction as yelling at their children!

Hopefully you're not suggesting we not yell at misbehaving kids. I often feel not enough of that goes on in current times. 

Redyns wrote: i would f*cking kill anyone who sprayed my dog.  period.

OP, get enough pepper spray so that you can control dog owners who decide to start threatening you over their out of control dog.

I do like the "spray it in front of them" suggestion. Everyone involved -- dog, owner, sprayer -- is going to be on the same page about how out of control things have gotten, while nobody should have to wipe snot off a face for god knows how long.