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Manufactured routes at Ten Sleep being called out

Original Post
Daniel Heins · · Seattle · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 1,254

Charlie Kardaleff, Aaron Huey, and JB Haab have an open letter shared on the Ten Sleep Canyon Facebook page calling out extensive chipping, drilling, and gluing occurring at Ten Sleep, to the point of entire crags being essentially fabricated.  

Their summary is as follows:

- Ten Sleep Canyon is getting chipped, drilled, and glued to death
- It’s not a few routes, or a few holds, it is substantial manufacturing
- Reports from locals are of entire crags put up over the past 3 seasons with heavy fabrication
- We want it to stop
- We think that the routes should be removed from the walls and guidebooks
See https://www.facebook.com/tensleepcanyon/photos/rpp.490697651134596/968354203368936/?type=3&theater 

In the comments is also a more pointed letter calling out a specific developer:
Pt1 and Pt2

Figured I'd bring attention to this over here, and also hear input from more locals/regulars (having personally only briefly visited Ten Sleep when I was based in the Black Hills)
Carolina · · Front Range NC · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 20

so sad to hear. I’d be ok with a public flogging.

Mike Knight · · Detroit, MI · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 55

Wow. Unbelievable. 

Mike Lane · · AnCapistan · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 880

I was wondering what took so long for the discussion to get started here. Ought to be an interesting thread.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

Limestone choss - tough call with no pictures to back up the claims. This canyon is HUGE and is pretty darn sharp and vertical. I can see not many people wanting to climb super hard razor blade routes. 

Mike Lane · · AnCapistan · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 880
Carolina · · Front Range NC · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 20
. Mobes wrote: Limestone choss - tough call with no pictures to back up the claims. This canyon is HUGE and is pretty darn sharp and vertical. I can see not many people wanting to climb super hard razor blade routes. 

I believe its dolomite not limestone.  But i tend to agree about the choss comment.  

That canyon ain’t all that big and it certainly not big enough for folks to chip holds.
Frank Stein · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 205

Well, Huey, Kardaleff et. al. have glued and comfortized themselves, which you kind of have to do with limestone, but I agree that the manufacturing is getting out of hand. For example, the blank section of Slavery Wall, to the left of Crown Prince Abdulah, is now completely manufactured.

I don't know about route removal, as there are several hundred of these across the crags now (& I won't lie, they are fun), but yeah, it does need to stop. Ten Sleep is a very user friendly sport crag, but it is not a gym. 

Tim Lutz · · Colo-Rado Springs · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 5
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

If the chipper is directly profiting from climbers, seems like a boycott would fix him right up.

Fehim Hasecic · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 215

So some chipping and manufacturing at higher level grades is OK but it’s not if the routes are 5.11 and lower. Double standards!
Some rock is just not meant to be climbed by anyone and if the original developers didn’t file holds to manufacture accessible routes then maybe none of this would be happening now.

bob branscomb · · Lander, WY · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,198

Absolutely unacceptable.  If you can't do it as it is, stash the ego and leave it for the next generation.  They should have a chance, as we have, to look at a piece of stone and wonder if they can do it.  If they can, then they can have that sense of achievement that we have been fortunate enough to have had.  When you hack something out so you can do it, you're ripping off the future, denying those young'ns an essential experience of climbing just so you can get your name in the guidebook and feed your ego.  It's a betrayal of the future generations and they won't thank you for your moronic effort.

Tim Lutz · · Colo-Rado Springs · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 5

This wouldn't happen to have anything to do with Anderson's guidebook threatening sales of Huey's leather-bound $100 guidebook?

hmmm.....

Guy H. · · Fort Collins CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 8,318
Tim Lutz wrote: This wouldn't happen to have anything to do with Anderson's guidebook threatening sales of Huey's leather-bound $100 guidebook?

hmmm.....

You can buy a $25 version of that same guidebook.  Try again...

"Aaron has donated all his work for this BCC fundraiser guide and has given up any connection to author profits so that the BCC can use the profits to continue its work maintaining the routes, trails and relationships that make Ten Sleep Canyon loved by climbers from around the world. "
Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610

GluieLouie?

Dudes, it's sport climbing, it IS gym climbing!

Nick Votto · · CO, CT, IT · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 320

Perpetrators should be permanently banned from Ten Sleep, this is disappointing 

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610
Nick Votto wrote: Perpetrators should be permanently banned from Ten Sleep, this is disappointing 

Under what authority?

AndyMac · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 1,123

Is it this Louie Anderson?
https://www.louieandersonclimbing.com/

Andrew Rice · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 11

I smell a commercial rivalry.

Frank Stein · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 205

Mark, I have climbed a good number of these routes, and they are almost completely manufactured on clean, but mostly featureless sections of wall. They tend to be mostly drilled. I am also not one to complain about comfortizing and reinforcing existing holds. 

Mark Rolofson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,000

I pulled my comment. I spoke too soon.  After reading the Ten Sleep Facebook page,  I get their concern & how these tactics may evolve.   I'm staying out of this debate.  The letter raises some serious issues. I don't have the intimate knowledge of the routes to properly weigh in.  The only thing I can say is removing the manufactured routes probably won't solve anything, either.  It is likely to stir things up more.  There needs to be an dialogue amongst the different parties. It's best the people manufacturing stop, so they don't create a battle in a peaceful canyon.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Wyoming, Montana, Dakotas
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