New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #5

Lori Milas wrote:how could I put together a summer trip to Yosemite? I’ve never been there. I hear it’s quite a feat to be on line at precisely the right moment to reserve a campsite. And then what...gear, navigation, finding partners.  It’s all a little daunting.

Can I enlist your thoughts on this? I’m guessing there are motels outside the park and probably plenty of guides. It still all sounds...HARD. And dicey.

My wife and I started going to Yosemite in the 80's. Not to climb, but to hike and camp back then. We also climbed the cables of half dome. Back then it seemed easy and did not take much planning. There were cabins we could rent in the park, which was awesome. But we always went off season before school got out or after school started. The last time I was there was in summer of 2012. It took a full year of planning for my son and I. Camp sites had to be secured in January, sold out in a day. We also had to get a permit to climb the cables on half dome. My son took a climbing lesson there for a day, and that required no advance notice.

You can roll the dice on camping. There is one office there that will give out cancelations. A line forms early in the morning for each day. We actually met some people who were from Europe and could not find anywhere to stay. We let them share our camp site, and I found others doing the same.

My advice, go off season. It's not as crowded and takes less planning. To climb, I don't have that answer. I have two friends who have climbed there a lot. One of them reserves camp sites a year in advance for April. He then finds other climbers who want to go. I am going this April for my first time to climb. I will be following and we are planning on doing Royal Arches. We will see if the plans all come together.

dragons wrote
John - "don't ignore the hold up and left". I asked a couple of people why that hold was there. Response was that it was a foothold for higher up. I'm not convinced. I did see a guy do the route pretty much ignoring it but then why is it there? I didn't think the route setter put it there for no reason, but if that's a handhold, where are my feet supposed to be while I'm reaching for that thing? Is it my left or right hand on it? I'm having a hard time picturing this.

It's there for a reason. It appears to be pretty positive too. Next trip up throw your left on it. I stopped the video and screenshot it. You can see how close it is, it gets a hand up and away from the middle of your body.It should also work in opposition to the the upper large hold. This will help you get the next foot situated. Pull off the large hold and push off that one as you swing to the right reaching for the hold out and right. I can't tell if your wingspan will let you keep a hand on it until you get the next one or not. I think it will.

Your right foot should become better as you swing right. Once you get the hold to the right (if it's as positive as I think it is) you'll see how you can leave the good left foothold and step into the the upper large hold.

When you do you should be able to lean chest-in to the wall and get a rest there. Chalk up and head out right.

Ratings are for chumps

Edit to add: the side pull above the large holds comes into play after you get the hold out right....and some other stuff above..... ;)

Tom Hickmann wrote: My wife and I started going to Yosemite in the 80's. Not to climb, but to hike and camp back then. We also climbed the cables of half dome. Back then it seemed easy and did not take much planning. There were cabins we could rent in the park, which was awesome. But we always went off season before school got out or after school started. The last time I was there was in summer of 2012. It took a full year of planning for my son and I. Camp sites had to be secured in January, sold out in a day. We also had to get a permit to climb the cables on half dome. My son took a climbing lesson there for a day, and that required no advance notice.

You can roll the dice on camping. There is one office there that will give out cancelations. A line forms early in the morning for each day. We actually met some people who were from Europe and could not find anywhere to stay. We let them share our camp site, and I found others doing the same.

My advice, go off season. It's not as crowded and takes less planning. To climb, I don't have that answer. I have two friends who have climbed there a lot. One of them reserves camp sites a year in advance for April. He then finds other climbers who want to go. I am going this April for my first time to climb. I will be following and we are planning on doing Royal Arches. We will see if the plans all come together.

Thanks, Tom.  You described exactly what I've heard, and that's about the time I give up planning and quit.  Perhaps there are hotel/motels outside the park to stay in, and I could just drive in for the day, and drive out at night.  There are probably guide services, and this is when I start feeling like a real tourist (and the bank account rapidly dwindles).   I'll keep thinking on it... maybe the lightbulb will go on.  Meanwhile, your trip in April sounds fun!  Take pictures.  Make sure you tell us how it went.    

Tom Hickmann wrote: On two of my last climbs I came across a lot of loose bolts, .., who do you contact to fix it? 

Tom, on MP description for the route that you are looking at about the 5th line down is "Admins".  You can PM these people and they generally know who is doing maintenance in the area. 

If it was Smith Rock you can join the fun of Spring Thing and or contact/make donation at Smith Rock Group.  You could also contact Jim Abloa at Chockstone climbing guides, he is very active in the area and probably knows who's doing what.

Lori Milas wrote:

Thanks, Tom.  You described exactly what I've heard, and that's about the time I give up planning and quit.  Perhaps there are hotel/motels outside the park to stay in, and I could just drive in for the day, and drive out at night.  There are probably guide services, and this is when I start feeling like a real tourist (and the bank account rapidly dwindles).   I'll keep thinking on it... maybe the lightbulb will go on.  Meanwhile, your trip in April sounds fun!  Take pictures.  Make sure you tell us how it went.    

You should talk to John Tuttle, you go to the same gym. I bet he would be up for a day or two of climbing in Yosemite with you. 

Tom Hickmann wrote: I have a dumb newb question. I climb a lot of sport routes. On two of my last climbs I came across a lot of loose bolts, one of which was actually a scary situation. I understand the difference between a bolt that is a spinner and needs to be tightened (I carry a nut tool just for that situation), versus a situation where the bolt can't be tightened and is loose and flexing. The latter situation is what I came across and it was the anchors. Both bolts loose and flexing. It prompted me to post a warning on MP for that route, but I also searched on what to do to fix the problem. In other words, who do you contact to fix it? And that made me think how do I as a climber contribute to help maintain these routes? I can't imagine that someone is just maintaining these for free. Anyone know if there is a reputable group that helps direct money to maintain these routes?

Here there's a local group, the Boulder Climbing Community, that takes on projects like this. Is there a similar climbers' group in Bend?

John Barritt wrote:

You should talk to John Tuttle, you go to the same gym. I bet he would be up for a day or two of climbing in Yosemite with you. 

Does Harumpster = John Tuttle?   You may have just outed John.

I’ve had the certain feeling that Harumpster and I have met at Pipeworks only I didn’t know it.  If I have been conversing with Harumpster at the gym and only he knew—payback’s a bitch   
It’s ok. I know several John’s now and using stealth technology and feminine wiles I will figure this out. 

John Barritt wrote: It's there for a reason. It appears to be pretty positive too. Next trip up throw your left on it. I stopped the video and screenshot it. You can see how close it is, it gets a hand up and away from the middle of your body.

Super beta John, thank you! I can see that helping.

Lori Milas wrote:

Thanks, Tom.  You described exactly what I've heard, and that's about the time I give up planning and quit.  Perhaps there are hotel/motels outside the park to stay in, and I could just drive in for the day, and drive out at night.  There are probably guide services, and this is when I start feeling like a real tourist (and the bank account rapidly dwindles).   I'll keep thinking on it... maybe the lightbulb will go on.  Meanwhile, your trip in April sounds fun!  Take pictures.  Make sure you tell us how it went.    

Hi Lori,  Your gonna miss one of the rites of passage as a climber not standing in line at Camp 4 and living in the dirt for a week or so.  Plenty of folks hanging out and climbing.  From reading this thread from a far sounds like you need to just climb with capable partners not just guides.  Gain skills of following and cleaning plenty of pitchs and have fun doing so.  I learned plenty of climbing skills by watching my partners and trying to be efficient.  

Used a Guide for 2 days many years ago as I knew no one that climbed.  Learned the basics of anchors and placing gear in the morning and we climbed for a day and a half.  Ever grateful to IME in North Conway for their knowledge.  Fast and light were the 2 things I took away with that experience.

My first Valley trip help mold my out look on my climbing every day after that one.  Just thinking about it brings a smile.  Been back plenty of times since.

Bud, everyone in Moab knows me as Budman   

Lori, google “Indian Flat RV Campground”. It is in El Portal. They have 25 tent camp sites. Closest commercial campground I know of to the Valley. 

dragons wrote:

Super beta John, thank you! I can see that helping.

No sweat, it looks like you're about halfway through the crux already...... ;)

Its always hard to give beta not being there to see how steep something is etc...But, we are saying you should be laying away to the left more to improve the handhold (the further you lean to the left the better it will get). If you can, back step left leg to lean more left and heel hook right foot. The hold out left is for feet only even if it can be reached. You'll be in an "iron cross" (gymnastic term) if you reach from it to the next hold.

The crux is clearly the transition from lay backing to the left to lay backing to the right. Usually best and most efficiently done dynamically with a little "mo". Throw for it while rocking onto your right foot (moving from heel hook to standing on it).

Lori Milas wrote: Having asked repeatedly “Am I ready to lead? Should I be leading yet?” I have always received the same answer “If you have to ask you’re not ready.”

Who is answering you that way? That's flat out a BULLSHIT answer. It's not rocket science. And there's nothing wrong with having some self-doubt and introspection or fear about it.

I ask myself if I'm ready to lead every single time I lead.

Camp 4  The noisiest campsite in the planet if you enjoy listening to people screaming and yelling all night and drunk off their ass go for it I prefer to get in do a wall and get out 

rgold wrote: One of the problems I keep harping on is that I think folks who go from the gym to a trad crag don't start easy enough. First of all, "easy" trad climbs are much harder than the corresponding easy gym climbs.  I don't think anyone has figured out how to simulate easy/moderate trad climbing indoors.   It's a bit of a different world, and you should get used to it before moving on, at least because many harder climbs have easier unprotected sections and it is just assumed you can deal with that.  And then there is the collection of gym/sport habits that prioritize moving up as the solution to all problems, with an inconsequential fall as the penalty for failure.  That's a potentially disasterous attitude for moderate outdoor trad.  

Find an outdoor level at which you feel very solid, and climb at that level for a while.  It is far harder to ever learn control if you insist on starting out insecure, which is what seems to me to happen with a lot of transitioners.

I agree so much with this. I actually came into gym climbing from trad climbing, not vice-versa. And I had to really learn that it was okay and, in fact, desirable in the gym to climb beyond my ability and to fall left and right. Which led to an authentic increase in my climbing ability in terms of ability to get up harder things. But I STILL revert back to caution and climbing well within my ability level the minute I'm climbing on trad gear.

The gift that gym and sport climbing has given me is that now my abilities are much stronger than I'd ever had developed climbing cautiously on trad my entire life. 

It's certainly not a helpful answer.  But behind it may be a truth, which is that the desire should be strong, almost overwhelming.  Don't get into leading because someone or some group or your own perceptions of the activity suggest that you should lead.  If we are speaking of outdoor trad, you are taking on a whole lot more risk, and you should feel that whatever compensations leading provides are well worth it.

Many of of us old-timers started leading with less experience than you already have, but that was outside on easy ground, we were young and stupid, and not everyone fared well in terms of consequences.  The kind of training and practice protocols available now are light-years away from those early days when people just grabbed a rope and (primitive) gear and headed up, so some of the intrinsic danger in the process can be mitigated.  What seems to me to make sense now is to learn and practice all the components of leading, and when those are in place, you can decide if the time is right.  At that moment, it isn't "am I ready," it's "I'm gonna do this."

rgold wrote: It's certainly not a helpful answer.  But behind it may be a truth, which is that the desire should be strong, almost overwhelming.  Don't get into leading because someone or some group or your own perceptions of the activity suggest that you should lead.  If we are speaking of outdoor trad, you are taking on a whole lot more risk, and you should feel that whatever compensations leading provides are well worth it.

Many of of us old-timers started leading with less experience than you already have, but that was outside on easy ground, we were young and stupid, and not everyone fared well in terms of consequences.  The kind of training and practice protocols available now are light-years away from those early days when people just grabbed a rope and (primitive) gear and headed up, so some of the intrinsic danger in the process can be mitigated.  What seems to me to make sense now is to learn and practice all the components of leading, and when those are in place, you can decide if the time is right.  At that moment, it isn't "am I ready," it's "I'm gonna do this."

I'm pretty sure that Lori is talking about the conversation at her gym about starting to learn to lead indoors. Not about learning to lead trad.

Her post on page 21 sounded like she's taking an outdoors leading and anchor class........

Edit to add: that post was about learning at Josh, the class stuff was further back along the line somewhere.

Lori Milas wrote:

...It’s all good. But I couldn’t get the leg spasm to stop (when does it stop?)...

Do you take a magnesium supplement Lori?

dragons wrote: wendy - "try putting your right foot on hold #11 and turning your right hip in". That is an interesting idea. I will try it. Hopefully I can get a belay on that again next time, so I can try several things while hanging.

Harumpfster Boondoggle - "Back step that Pac Man's mouth and the next time you move up your left foot too".
Here's the moment when my foot is on Pacman's jaw:
https://youtu.be/Cszr0L6rFWc?t=33
The following time, I managed to get my left foot up onto hold #10; I think maybe I did it with a backstep. I'll try to get footage of that (pun!).

John - "don't ignore the hold up and left". I asked a couple of people why that hold was there. Response was that it was a foothold for higher up. I'm not convinced. I did see a guy do the route pretty much ignoring it but then why is it there? I didn't think the route setter put it there for no reason, but if that's a handhold, where are my feet supposed to be while I'm reaching for that thing? Is it my left or right hand on it? I'm having a hard time picturing this.

Fat Dad - "It's kind of obvious where it starts getting hard because you appeared over concerned with your next handhold but completely forget your left foot." Can you expand on that?

Was it here? There are no footholds to the left here.

Or here? Still no left footholds. Might be difficult to see because there are some orange holds that have a similar shade.

Or further down, even?

I was definitely having trouble with my left foot as soon as I started moving up onto Pacman's mouth. It's not easy getting up there. Whenever I tried to turn my left hip in towards the wall, this would cause my shoulders to rotate with my left shoulder towards the wall, which would tend to push me off the tenuous hold on that first rail.

Thanks for the encouragement, everyone! I was planning to give up on this, once I learned it's a 10d. I'll keep trying.

Place that left foot out left smearing on the wall.  I feel like jumping on a plane and flying there to try this route!!