PAS Use?

As another old trad climber who climbs at a 4-6 pitch venue which (for unknown reasons) has a shit ton of fixed anchors, I'd have to disagree. I've used a PAS there for years and personally can't quite figure out why, in a cragging context, any form of leashing warrants this much hand-ringing discussion one way or the other. It's not vaguely inconvenient (shortened in half, it stays on my left side attached to my back gear loop without interfering with anything [not doing the idiotic thong thing]), I'm never [ever] going to fall on it, and I do use it for half the anchor because frankly there's not a single frigging coherent or rational argument against doing so. Again, it's a real choice plum as first-world climbing issues go.

Josh Cameron wrote: A Daisy chain is just as bomber as a PAS in real world applications. 

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/experience-story?format=landing&cid=qc-lab-daisy-chain-dangers-en-glbl

FrankPS wrote:

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/experience-story?format=landing&cid=qc-lab-daisy-chain-dangers-en-glbl

Thank you Frank. The Metolius PAS loops are individually sewn doubled over loops and are rated to 22Kn. The loops themselves individually break way higher than 22Kn.. it’s the fabric on fabric friction that causes them to break at the 22Kn rating. Strong, versatile, and super handy... 

Chris Hatzai wrote:

Thank you Frank. The Metolius PAS loops are individually sewn doubled over loops and are rated to 22Kn. The loops themselves individually break way higher than 22Kn.. it’s the fabric on fabric friction that causes them to break at the 22Kn rating. Strong, versatile, and super handy... 

Just to be clear - I wasn't referring to a PAS. I was pointing out out the danger of using a daisy chain as a PAS. The daisy chain is not a PAS. Personally, I use the Sterling Chain Reactor.

Im aware. Was just adding to the point that a daisy chain is not a reliable self anchoring tool.

Tell me, what's wrong with wearing a PAS as a thong?

Chris Hatzai wrote: Im aware. Was just adding to the point that a daisy chain is not a reliable self anchoring tool.

Sounds like we're on the same page.

Tradiban wrote: Tell me, what's wrong with wearing a PAS as a thong?

Sounds like we're on the same page.

Chris Hatzai wrote:...a daisy chain is not a reliable self anchoring tool.

A couple months ago I picked up the CAMP's new Daisy Chain Twist for use as a PAS and have to say I have nothing but good things to say about it. It eliminates the dangers of using a normal Daisy but still allows for easy and precise adjustment (moreso than a looped PAS). Also correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the nylon of the chain would be better in the case of dynamic weighting than a Dyneema or Dyneema blend PAS.

Tradiban wrote: Tell me, what's wrong with wearing a PAS as a thong?

1. It's dangerous. Normally when you're falling and something (a tree branch, a rock horn) hits you right in the lower crotch, it will just bash into your private parts and then you fall right on by in moderate pain but no worse for the wear.  But with a PAS thong, it will always snag a loop of the thong and cause a factor 30 fall. I know that sometimes the same thing happens when your belay loop or tie in points gets caught on said obstacles, but that's only when you're hitting the obstacle with the front part of your crotch.  It's much more common to strike these things UNDER your crotch where the thong passes.

2. It looks ridiculous. It's a pretty solid rule that EVERYONE looks very good in a harness. This is a main reason that most climbers are very successful at finding dates.  And a PAS thong really damages that look- because now the wearer looks like someone who appreciates uncluttered belay loops more than someone who is concerned with appearances.  If you want to make personal choices based on your own opinions, go take up some other sport where impressing others is not as important!

3. It's oddly sexual because nothing makes one think of skimpy underwear more than 7 loops of dyneema with biners clipped onto a harness.  Thinking about other people's underwear makes some climbers feel VERY uncomfortable, because now they've thought about that person's underwear and that might prove that they are attracted to that person.  Also, it's not usually discussed, but even a PAS worn in a NOT-THONG position makes people think of underwear. That's often the main underlying reason to vocally speak out against them in general.

I don't use a PAS

Sean Peter wrote:

1. It's dangerous. Normally when you're falling and something (a tree branch, a rock horn) hits you right in the lower crotch, it will just bash into your private parts and then you fall right on by in moderate pain but no worse for the wear.  But with a PAS thong, it will always snag a loop of the thong and cause a factor 30 fall. I know that sometimes the same thing happens when your belay loop or tie in points gets caught on said obstacles, but that's only when you're hitting the obstacle with the front part of your crotch.  It's much more common to strike these things UNDER your crotch where the thong passes.

2. It looks ridiculous. It's a pretty solid rule that EVERYONE looks very good in a harness. This is a main reason that most climbers are very successful at finding dates.  And a PAS thong really damages that look- because now the wearer looks like someone who appreciates uncluttered belay loops more than someone who is concerned with appearances.  If you want to make personal choices based on your own opinions, go take up some other sport where impressing others is not as important!

3. It's oddly sexual because nothing makes one think of skimpy underwear more than 7 loops of dyneema with biners clipped onto a harness.  Thinking about other people's underwear makes some climbers feel VERY uncomfortable, because now they've thought about that person's underwear and that might prove that they are attracted to that person.  Also, it's not usually discussed, but even a PAS worn in a NOT-THONG position makes people think of underwear. That's often the main underlying reason to vocally speak out against them in general.

I don't use a PAS

So, I was right! Anti-PAS thong people are homophobic!

Sean Peter wrote:

1. It's dangerous.

2. It looks ridiculous.
3. It's oddly sexual because nothing makes one think of skimpy underwear more than 7 loops of dyneema with biners clipped onto a harness. 

I do use a PAS and agree with the first two points; Sean is on his own with the third...