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Photos of BEAUTIFUL HARDWARE

Ed Henicle · · Santa Rosa, CA · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,369

I like this sport anchor. Simple, strong, and blends in with the crag for lower visual impact. Lead, lower, go!
Fixe SS 10 mm X 8 cm glue-ins ($6), ClimbTech SS 3/8 links ($9), ClimbTech PS anchor hooks ($6). Total about $42 retail
M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090
Ed Henicle wrote:

I like this sport anchor. Simple, strong, and blends in with the crag for lower visual impact. Lead, lower, go!
Fixe SS 10 mm X 8 cm glue-ins ($6), ClimbTech SS 3/8 links ($9), ClimbTech PS anchor hooks ($6). Total about $42

How easy is it to unclip the rope by lifting one side up and over?

Ed Henicle · · Santa Rosa, CA · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,369
M Sprague wrote:

How easy is it to unclip the rope by lifting one side up and over?

Great question. 

Yes - you can flip the rope up, over, and a sharp down to un-clip. Safer to install opposed hooks if you think folks are going to be TR'ing with them.

Rob warden The space lizard · · Now...where? · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 0
Ed Henicle wrote:

Great question. 

Yes - you can flip the rope up, over, and a sharp down to un-clip. Safer to install opposed hooks.

And...totally unnecessary. You are just lowering.  You tr on your own gear.  Keep em the same direction

Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 148

Yea those are for lowering not top roping. A proper set of biners with opposed gates should be used to TR. I wouldn't be that happy to top rope on mussies no matter opposed or not. The gates just aren't made for it.

Otherwise, I love those climb tech hooks.

DrRockso RRG · · Red River Gorge, KY · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 815

The climb tech hooks are the first mussy specifically designed with a climbing rated wire gate, I'd have no problem tr'ing on them all day at a private crag where I maintained the gear.  Obviously don't TR on fixed gear unless the area specifically condones it. I generally place them both gates out if using just one quicklink or opposed if using chains but it really just depends on how they sit on the rock.  

Kevin Mokracek · · Burbank · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 342
M Sprague wrote:

How easy is it to unclip the rope by lifting one side up and over?

Super easy if you are jumping up and whipping the rope from side to side while lowering.  My question is under what circumstances you would be doing that that would cause the rope to do unclip from the anchor.  

M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090
Kevin Mokracek wrote:

Super easy if you are jumping up and whipping the rope from side to side while lowering.  My question is under what circumstances you would be doing that that would cause the rope to do unclip from the anchor.  

Obviously somebody being fully aware wouldn't climb above the anchor, but we all know people do odd things. You can't make an anchor safe for everybody, but if we are designing the best, reasonably practical and cost efficient one, avoiding potential for completely unclipping  as a result of a simple loop of the rope would be nice to design in, imo.

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525
M Sprague wrote:

Obviously somebody being fully aware wouldn't climb above the anchor, but we all know people do odd things. You can't make an anchor safe for everybody, but if we are designing the best, reasonably practical and cost efficient one, avoiding potential for completely unclipping  as a result of a simple loop of the rope would be nice to design in, imo.

You can't please everybody. Mussies offer unparalleled durability as well as being a drop in style anchor that arguably reduces the potential for error and therefore injury/death. You're just trading risks if you do opposite and opposed (most of the time) because, unless they are hanging in space, there is likely to be some kind of rock/gate interface issues, potentially opening the gate. 

Mike Bond · · Kentucky · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 3,191

Has a loop of rope from lowering ever caused a drop in two peice anchor to unclip resulting in a ground fall?  I have not heard of one...and that is with the tens of thousands of drop ins used since the 80s and potentially millions of lowering instances?

Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 148

All I would add is that I agree 110% that the likelihood of unclipping is small...but that perfect basket the tip of the hook makes to catch the rope and unclip is not ideal for top roping. Despite our best intentions newbies will likely use it as such.

On easier routes I prefer solid SS rings just to keep them safer. If they tr off the fixed hardware (and they will esp in mixed trad territory) its probably the better way to go, imo.

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525
Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote: All I would add is that I agree 110% that the likelihood of unclipping is small...but that perfect basket the tip of the hook makes to catch the rope and unclip is not ideal for top roping. Despite our best intentions newbies will likely use it as such.

On easier routes I prefer solid SS rings just to keep them safer. If they tr off the fixed hardware (and they will esp in mixed trad territory) its probably the better way to go, imo.

one could make the argument that having mussies is safer than rings that must be threaded. I'm not here to make that argument, but I think mussies are a better option than rings. They're way more durable and any danger that is specific to people TRing through the mussies is a moot point IMO. If they get hurt doing something they shouldn't be doing then that's not my problem and they had it coming.

Kevin Mokracek · · Burbank · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 342
dnoB ekiM wrote: Has a loop of rope from lowering ever caused a drop in two peice anchor to unclip resulting in a ground fall?  I have not heard of one...and that is with the tens of thousands of drop ins used since the 80s and potentially millions of lowering instances?

I'll take those odds.   If I start worrying about the rope unclipping itself while lowering I better stop driving too.

Bobby Hutton · · Grizzly Flat, CA · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 1,153

I was climbing at the Owen's River Gorge recently. As far as I know that area has the most Mussy Hooks in California (if not the west coast). The local ethic as per the guide book (written by a prolific local developer and re-equipper) seems to be that it is acceptable for a follower or two to TR the route on the mussy hooks but if you have a large group you are expected to set up your own anchor. Just thought this interesting. As a route developer I am setting up my Lower Off anchors with this scenario in mind.

Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 148
eli poss wrote:

one could make the argument that having mussies is safer than rings that must be threaded. I'm not here to make that argument, but I think mussies are a better option than rings. They're way more durable and any danger that is specific to people TRing through the mussies is a moot point IMO. If they get hurt doing something they shouldn't be doing then that's not my problem and they had it coming.

Its a big unknown. I fear the first accident with mussies is coming and it will be ascribed to the nature of the gate.

At least with solid rings they are inherently safe regardless of user error. I'm not completely sure we have established that when tr-ing with mussies.

This may be an excess of caution...but sometimes it takes awhile for an unforeseen failure mode to appear.
Kevin Mokracek · · Burbank · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 342
Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

Its a big unknown. I fear the first accident with mussies is coming and it will be ascribed to the nature of the gate.

At least with solid rings they are inherently safe regardless of user error. I'm not completely sure we have established that when tr-ing with mussies.

This may be an excess of caution...but sometimes it takes awhile for an unforeseen failure mode to appear.

I believe rings have more potential for user error than mussys.  With mussys you just flip the rope in and lower.  With rings you either clip in with a draw and untie and thread the rope through or take a long bite and thread it through while staying tied in and attach yourself via the bite with a 8 on a bite or even an overhand on a bite.  Either way there are many more steps using rings whatever you do.  With mussys its one step and lower.  I use both when putting up routes.  For single pitch sport routes I go the mussy route, for multi pitch I use two quick links or a quick link and a ring so I can change out the ring or link if it starts to wear plus its lighter to carry on lead.  Both I believe have a place but i do believe the mussy is inherently safer for single pitch sport, in order for that system to fail the user really has to be doing something really stupid and if thats the case rings wouldn't help that person either.

Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 148
Kevin Mokracek wrote:

I believe rings have more potential for user error than mussys.  With mussys you just flip the rope in and lower.  With rings you either clip in with a draw and untie and thread the rope through or take a long bite and thread it through while staying tied in and attach yourself via the bite with a 8 on a bite or even an overhand on a bite.  Either way there are many more steps using rings whatever you do.  With mussys its one step and lower.  I use both when putting up routes.  For single pitch sport routes I go the mussy route, for multi pitch I use two quick links or a quick link and a ring so I can change out the ring or link if it starts to wear plus its lighter to carry on lead.  Both I believe have a place but i do believe the mussy is inherently safer for single pitch sport, in order for that system to fail the user really has to be doing something really stupid and if thats the case rings wouldn't help that person either.

Yes we have found the failure modes with rings....remember when open cold shuts were thought to be fine? It took time to figure out they weren't.

Not yet convinced we have found the potential failure mode for mussies though this may be an abundance of caution on my part. Identifying that has made using rings safer, imo, particularly if people are want to top rope on them.
Mike Bond · · Kentucky · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 3,191
 Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

Yes we have found the failure modes with rings....remember when open cold shuts were thought to be fine? It took time to figure out they weren't.

Did we ever "figure out" that open cold shuts were not fine (Recognizing we always knew they did not work for really steep rock.)?  Or did we just decide we no longer liked them. What data or event made cold shuts not OK?  I think it is just evolving preference.  Although, I no longer use them either.  I've lowered-off of open shuts thousands of times...and I would not be one bit concerned to do so on anything that is not extremely overhanging.  Fixe still makes them with gates, but that gate does not supply any real security. 

On mussies, I started with opposing them.  However, users often seemed to be confused by that...and in all "approved" use scenarios, it offers no advantage.  So, I leave them both facing out now.  For popular climbing areas, mussies save time and reduce risk.
Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 148

Saving time is not always the goal. One flip side to that coin is route quality degrading faster from over use.

The day is here for some routes in popular areas to have convenience reduced.

Patrick Miller · · Indiana · Joined May 2017 · Points: 340

I placed this wave Bolt about 7 years ago.  Epcon A7 glue with plated steel home Depot quick links. It's in direct sunlight and gets alot of water run off.
  I'm not a fan of the Home Depot links for just this reason. I usually only use SS link, but they are expensive and for whatever reason I only had these at the time. After getting some SS  links I sent out to clean and replace. Just a  little rubbing  with scotch bright it cleaned up pretty good. Not sure how much longer it would have took to pit the steel, but bolt is smooth,clean and strong.
  So just a heads up on mixing metals. If you've had to use plated against SS  your stainless will rust. But I think most of you know this. Happy bolting out there. 

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