Eastside/Bishop poor stewardship guide.

Prana deleted their post thanks to some intense backlash in the comments. That's a win, but I don't think "social media shaming" in general is the best course of action. It works in this type of situation, when a popular brand posts something so obviously harmful (and by all means people should keep doing this), but it won't work when a random van is parked where it shouldn't be, or when someone leaves human feces with scattered toilet paper. Sure, someone popular can post a picture of it, but there are few situations where the individual could even be identified, and the audience for the post would mainly be people who are aware of these issues in the first place, not the city dwellers romping around for the weekend.

For instance, the Bishop Climbers post about wet rock is great, but I just overheard people headed to the tablelands to "see if the rock is dry and climb something". Monitoring these areas is probably a lot like baby-sitting a mischievous child. If you try to put a movie on for them as a quick fix so you can do what you want, next thing you know they're terrorizing the kitchen or drawing on their face. If you engage them and put in the energy to participate with them, you can make a positive connection that makes them a better child in the long run while preventing chaos. That's what we need, right?

It's really easy to get worked up on social media and post a shaming picture or rant. Volunteering time and energy is much harder, but most worthwhile endeavors are.

Also: what about a "wet rock" sign that goes up during or after rain, reminding people that they should wait, eliminating that "we didn't know any better" excuse? 

brian burke wrote: this recent post from the bishop area climbers coalition seems like a worthy addition to this topic.

Whoa, whoa WHOA?!?! 24h to climb on granite?!?!! This bullshit has gone too far!

When did climbing on wet granite become a problem? I think not.

Holds do break, but in granite or volcanic rock, they are not porous and the water doesn't weaken the bonds like wind deposited sandstone.  

Tradiban wrote:

Whoa, whoa WHOA?!?! 24h to climb on granite?!?!! This bullshit has gone too far!

Haven’t you heard? Due to the global warming and increased quantities of carbon in the air, granite is becoming so porous that it’s loosing strength tenfold. It’s weaker than Creek sandstone after rain. That’s why we’re so ahead of the times in CO and already have signs posted at each granite crag to abstain for 24 hours from climbing otherwise the public shaming will ensue!

brian burke wrote: this recent post from the bishop area climbers coalition seems like a worthy addition to this topic.

By the way, what’s going on in this picture? I thinks it goes to prove that boulderers are at the bottom of intelligence pyramid in climbing 

avoiding climbing in the milks or the tablelands after rain seems completely legit.  there is some fragile rock around those parts...  its not like we're talking about avoiding climbing splitter cracks on yosemite granite after rain, which would certainly seem a little excessive.

David S wrote: Can we correllate when that hold broke against the recent precipitation history there?

Someone posted on mountain project that the hold was broken on 11/27/18. According to weather underground's historical data the only time that it rained in Bishop in the entire month of November was the 29th.

Blame the GYMS.

Competent Leader wrote:

You east side boys are soft, they try that down at woodson and well i don't have to tell you how that would turn out nawmean? locals only or something similar.

Are Woodson locals really as douche as their Surfer counterparts in cali? To be honest California is full of softies.

A few years ago Patagonia posted a picture of a camp fire at the buttermilk’s on instagram. I called them out on it but they never replied. Just checked again and it looks like they pulled the pic. 

Jaren Watson wrote:

Josh Cameron wrote:

Reminds me of when Dean Potter scaled Delicate Arch in Utah with a photog in tow hired by Patagonia. Of course Prana "deeply regrets the decision" because they may have lost money over it. Tsk tsk.

Have you seen the video of Dean talking about it. It’s crazy how angry people got at him. Best quote was something like “I think all rocks are sacred and special, people are mad because this is rock is on their license plates.”

Tristan Burnham wrote:

Have you seen the video of Dean talking about it. It’s crazy how angry people got at him. Best quote was something like “I think all rocks are sacred and special, people are mad because this is rock is on their license plates.”

He was wrong. People were angry because in his Narcissism it was ok for him to trespass but not others.

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

He was wrong. People were angry because in his Narcissism it was ok for him to trespass but not others.

Not trespassing. It wasn’t illegal when he did it.  

I was at the Bishop Area Climbers Coalition meeting.  I think it's a great start and will help us deal with these impact issues.  I, for one, besides not being a boulderer anyway, avoid the Milks on weekends and during peak vacation periods.  It is a total zoo with dozens of vehicles--I think I estimated over 50 once.  Lost count.  I am totally willing to do stewardship at these areas.  I've often picked up trash, used TP, even a dumped television once out near the Whitney Cave at the Alabama Hills, another area that is now being loved to death, although in that area is more impacted by general campers/boondockers than climbers compared to the areas being discussed here.  Besides general population growth in Cali, which is extreme, the social media/networking technology has really fueled these problems.  The people and the technology aren't going away, so we need to be proactive and not merely rant and rave on forums.  When you go to an area, pick up trash, do what you can to educate people, SHOW people the way by your actions.  It think it all helps.  

BAd wrote: Besides general population growth in Cali, which is extreme, the social media/networking technology has really fueled these problems.  The people and the technology aren't going away, so we need to be proactive and not merely rant and rave on forums.    

Great things often have modest beginnings.  Let's hope the coalition will be a step in the right direction.  

Social media is great (though, as a dude in my 50s I don't enjoy it nearly as much as my teenager) but it has really negatively impacted some areas that were really little known outside of the community of climbers.  I think of what they call Potato Chip Rock at Mt. Woodson.  Before social media, it was just a funky flake that you gawked at.  Now nonclimbers trudge up there routinely just to stand in line (someone posted that they waited for an hour (!)) just to be able to take a picture and post it on Facebook or Instagram.  The Milks are crazy enough with just climbers.  Let's hope the general public doesn't find a sudden attraction for the place.   

True that, Fat Dad.

BAd wrote: I was at the Bishop Area Climbers Coalition meeting.  I think it's a great start and will help us deal with these impact issues.  I, for one, besides not being a boulderer anyway, avoid the Milks on weekends and during peak vacation periods.  It is a total zoo with dozens of vehicles--I think I estimated over 50 once.  Lost count.  I am totally willing to do stewardship at these areas.  I've often picked up trash, used TP, even a dumped television once out near the Whitney Cave at the Alabama Hills, another area that is now being loved to death, although in that area is more impacted by general campers/boondockers than climbers compared to the areas being discussed here.  Besides general population growth in Cali, which is extreme, the social media/networking technology has really fueled these problems.  The people and the technology aren't going away, so we need to be proactive and not merely rant and rave on forums.  When you go to an area, pick up trash, do what you can to educate people, SHOW people the way by your actions.  It think it all helps.  

How was the turnout for the Coalition? Ended up going to work sooner than planned so couldn’t attend. 

It was good, Posi, basically packed--about 75 people.  Bob Harrington gave a quick history of water in the ORG, and other members of the panel, which included Peter Croft, Marty Lewis, and Tai Devore, talked about the issues in the ORG.  The good news was that the workers for the DWP are really cool with the climbers.  They are kinda stoked to have us as a user group, it would seem.  We have to be very respectful of their operations and follow all closures--like stay away from yellow warning tape, etc--but they've got no problems with us.  There does seem to be a way forward re. good bridges, etc, but I suspect that will move with glacial speed.  Still, no climbing restrictions of any kind except around marked off work areas--I think there's one off-limits crag near the central power station right now.  One woman who's lived in the area from the 70's tried to make the case that climbers were somehow uniquely guilty of lowering the quality of life, but Marty pointed out that we are hardly the only user group in the area--and maybe not even the biggest.  Regardless, we live in one of the best areas in the world for this sport, and, like it or not, the place is on the map.  The woman made some sort of nonsensical comment about how people have "lived in the Gorge for 25 years" and now the climbers have chased away all the animals.  Huh?!  The place was a dead zone until water releases started in the early '90's.  She also likened climbers' dispersed camping to setting up a corral anywhere she wanted.  Analogy fail, but she did voice a local's concern, and I get it.  We have to do extreme leave-no-trace camping.  I hope we can educate enough people to make a difference.