New and experienced climbers over 50 #4

48 here this am and dropping slow, weather men are calling for "snowmaggeddon" this weekend..... ;)

3 maybe 4 inches probably but the stores are out of milk and bread.

Skipping hunting to snow ride at the Stillwater 500 this weekend. Should be a blast. It's all in the gear, ski gloves, a little heat off the radiators blowing on the thighs and heated insoles.... ;)

Coldest morning hunting this year so far was 21 degrees, froze out of the stand by 10:30 wearing good gear helps but sitting still the cold finds you.

As for desert climbing (or southern OK) 50s during the day is perfect.

Y'all be safe and have fun!

Eric L wrote:

x2,  I've been following the thread(s) and love the inspiration from all the seasoned climbers here... especially since I officially "joined the club" last week.  Thanks all!

We have rules.  You have to show ID at the door... and I'm still waiting for someone to card Constine because I think he slipped in when no one was looking.  
Happy birthday and welcome, now that you're old!      

-2f the other night. Time for todays training report.  
Cardio, quadriceps, core strength.

Who says training can't be fun.

Ha ha! 38 here, and by 38 I mean 100   
Bit too hot to clamber outside and just as I was thinking about clambering outside tomorrow morning I see it's gonna rain! Tsk!

What I do to rock climb in the cold is wear a three-layered system of clothing, have shoes a size larger than normal for socks, and then use those heating packets.

I use the heating packets in two ways: a) I use the thin, small ones for your shoe (w/ the tape strip) and put them tape outward in the palm of fingerless gloves - i.e. the tape sticks to the palm of the glove, not the palm of the hand and b) I [loosely] sport tape the normal handwarmer size ones to underside of my wrists where the blood flow into and out of the hand is most exposed.

Beyond that I make sure I'm fueled and hydrated well beforehand in order to keep my core temp up and if it's really cold I might kick back a niacin to flush more blood outward to the peripheral vascular system.

This system is what I used bitd in Chicago doing roofing work all day through the winter.

Healyje wrote:  b) I [loosely] sport tape the normal handwarmer size ones to underside of my wrists where the blood flow into and out of the hand is most exposed.

This is a brilliant idea. 

I've used that method for quite a few years---I think I learned it from Joe a long time ago.

"I believe in pushing the limit of what is possible.  I look at people who took an idea and took it up a notch, and then took it up another notch.  It's important to look at where the bar has been set before and toy with the idea of setting it higher.... You have to take risks to move forward. Failure isn't permanent, embrace failure as a means to move forward. But to put something so personal on the line is scary...but really, you set your own standards, and personally I think you should set them very high."  ~ Jimmy Chin (Master Photography Class)

Listening to, and inspired, by Jimmy Chin this morning.  I think 'the bar' is an internal one... and the 'notch' is also.  As a group we have also been talking about being outliers, intending to take this journey a little farther than what's been done before.  And it has absolutely nothing to do with what younger, stronger, more able people are doing. 

Healyje wrote: What I do to rock climb in the cold is wear a three-layered system of clothing, have shoes a size larger than normal for socks, and then use those heating packets.

I use the heating packets in two ways: a) I use the thin, small ones for your shoe (w/ the tape strip) and put them tape outward in the palm of fingerless gloves - i.e. the tape sticks to the palm of the glove, not the palm of the hand and b) I [loosely] sport tape the normal handwarmer size ones to underside of my wrists where the blood flow into and out of the hand is most exposed.

Beyond that I make sure I'm fueled and hydrated well beforehand in order to keep my core temp up and if it's really cold I might kick back a niacin to flush more blood outward to the peripheral vascular system.

This system is what I used bitd in Chicago doing roofing work all day through the winter.

A hearty Welcome Joe.
 I'm sure everyone would be glad to see you post here once in a while.

As an introduction, for this to be your 1st(?) post to the old folks' thread, HA!, I am kind of giggling, I'm pretty sure that what you call climbing in the cold means something very different from what the SoCal folks have to endure. Maybe you remember those below zero top ropes in Ohi.... Oh, . I've stopped giving advice on rope solo, glad you still wade in there.  AS your expertise is by far the most informed.
Merry Solstice or Christmas... Whatever  - blessings of light from this side & Be well (I hope the shoulders are carrying you ?)

Healyje wrote: Mostly a matter of luck, an aversion to boredom, and a longstanding addiction to novelty...

1975:

2018:

I'll just leave the other post as well.

Lori ,
(& everyone)
This Gathering of SilverBacks has turned from a good thing to a great thing!

Lori, not to diminish your stoke, but....I'm thinking Mr Chin is not a climber who has tasted real failure. Setting the bar high and failing at master photography is not the same as failing at climbing or dirtbike riding.

If by failure you mean not completing a route, and getting down safely, that's not failure. The success is in the getting down safely part.

Extension of the physical limit comes from rubbing against it so that it moves from the pressure.

I'm more cautious, (or careful might be a better word) to not press the envelope to far these days. The line between the edge of your ability and where injury occurs gets thinner as we age. I still run up against it but tend not to linger there.

At 60 mph the ground is way harder than you think. My youngest son and I were discussing the small club we belong to at a family gathering and he pointed out sometimes it's best "not to know" what something is like.

John Barritt wrote: Lori, not to diminish your stoke, but....I'm thinking Mr Chin is not a climber who has tasted real failure. Setting the bar high and failing at master photography is not the same as failing at climbing or dirtbike riding.

​Meru Trailer​​​

Suburban Roadside wrote: I'll just leave the other post as well.

Lori ,
(& everyone)
This Gathering of SilverBacks has turned from a good thing to a great thing!

Suburban, I agree.  And it's so nice to see you here, too.    

They definitely make the point of risk of life vs the "rewards" attained. 

I wonder if the notion of "push your limits" being promoted would change post serious personal injury for these guys.

Or more importantly when they are "over 50" and stuff is tearing.

Either way, I think at the least the glamorization of the notion as a motivational tool is wrong.

I admire Honnold's ability, but the point of "true failure" will leave him a changed (or dead) person.

I hate to see young people and "new older climbers" inspired to push their limits this way.

John Barritt wrote: They definitely make the point of risk of life vs the "rewards" attained.

I wonder if the notion of "push your limits" being promoted would change post serious personal injury for these guys.

Or more importantly when they are "over 50" and stuff is tearing.

Either way, I think at the least the glamorization of the notion as a motivational tool is wrong.

I admire Honnold's ability, but the point of "true failure" will leave him a changed (or dead) person.

I hate to see young people and "new older climbers" inspired to push their limits this way.

Hey John,
I was going to leave your sentiments stand, because they are good ones.  But I know that is not what Jimmy was talking about.. .nor how I took his words (out of context).  The reason I posted them this morning was because they spoke directly to me as an older and newer climber, terrified at the beginning, and convinced none of this was a good idea, but willing to 'take it up a notch' from what is expected of a senior.  And I continue to take it up another notch... which for most climbers here would be laughable (in terms of grade and skill) but for me is aching to know to my personal best.  
 
But even more than that, I take Chin's words as a challenge to rethink what is possible.  I continue to broaden my idea of what and who I am at this time of life.  It has nothing to do with going into danger and taking surreal foolish risks.  Perhaps the word I'm looking for is 'vision'.  Totally outside the small realm of climbing... just vision for our lives.   Set the bar a little higher... which is what I think every one of us is doing.  

-------------------

Something else from this master class I am pondering: Chin said "Fail early".  He described one of his first ventures somewhere around Meru that was completely ahead of what he could do... he wasn't physically or emotionally prepared for it, and he and his team never made it up their climb.  But because of that failure, he gained intimate knowledge of what he would need to do to be better prepared, to be physically ready next time he tried it.  Helpful to think of, that tanking on a climb is a good way of understanding what training and work would be needed to make it up the grade next time. 

If there's ever been a sport where you advance through failure, it's this one. All my advances as a climber have come from pushing through comfort, failing, and then learning from it. 

1st, trying to be on topic, Ive scanned some of whats been said.

 The ability to breath normally when out of your comfort zone, is a big deal. Be proud of that progress,

It is also a real achievement to stand on your toes, alone, with only a thin cord connecting you to reality.
 
Something I think may be long forgotten by many here, apologies if I'm wrong on that.

 I keep an eye on this thread out of concern for the way that a near teenager is schooling someone.
 
Plastic Pulling, for all It is worth, is a hard way to learn footwork, balance? maybe.  

The strides in climbing will come when you expand the muscles that you have but have not yet, incorporated into the mix.
The neck comments* were a hint to strive for a balance of new upper body strength & finding the best resting stance,
according to the way your body best works.
(hips 'IN' -'tushy- tucked up' -but not off center)
if that makes sense?
depending on arm length; what is called "Ape Index" the way you stand to rest & step up is unique to you,
 and so it can be hard for a couch to relate to - (understand?)  
 If you can develop a strong neck, and core, together, so in balance, you will be less likely to injure -tear- (YIKes*)anything.

Russ Walling will be along shortly to tell you that my incoherent babble can be discounted- As if he knows, he has always been a mutant.
Jeffery, another genetic oddity*, on the other hand, could weigh in on the way he keeps in balance, I think.
 (food? massage?Yoga?, spill some wisdom wouldya, please?) How did you keep your feet from giving out?
I wore slippers for a decade, then, slacked off on climbing for 5 yrs(Having Kiddlets, buying a home away from a -massive draw-  climbing area, etc )
 my feet have never recovered to full strength.
Now
The Master Joe H Needs to tell how dangerous this moment is.
 in the pix '75,
 if he blows the moves will the swing end with a dirt blap?
(me, thinks so)

I hope HealyJ, doesn't mind I tried to clean them both up a bit
(Every '*' is where I'd add an Emoji, if I could(~);-7)

Suburban Roadside wrote: 1st, trying to be on topic, Ive scanned some of whats been said.

 The ability to breath normally when out of your comfort zone, is a big deal. Be proud of that progress,

It is also a real achievement to stand on your toes, alone, with only a thin cord connecting you to reality.
 
Something I think may be long forgotten by many here, apologies if I'm wrong on that.

 I keep an eye on this thread out of concern for the way that a near teenager is schooling someone.
 
Plastic Pulling, for all It is worth, is a hard way to learn footwork, balance? maybe.  

The strides in climbing will come when you expand the muscles that you have but have not yet, incorporated into the mix.
The neck comments* were a hint to strive for a balance of new upper body strength & finding the best resting stance,
according to the way your body best works.
 If you can develop a strong neck, and core, together, so in balance, you will be less likely to injure -tear- (YIKes)anything.

Russ Walling will be along shortly to tell you that my incoherent babble can be discounted- As if he knows, he has always been a mutant.
Jeffery, on the other hand, could weigh in on the way he keeps in balance, I think. (food? massage?Yoga?, spill some wisdom wouldya, please?)
Now
The Master Joe H Needs to tell how dangerous this moment is.
 in the pix '75,
 if he blows the moves will the swing will end with a dirt blap?

I hope HealyJ, doesn't mind I tried to clean them both up a bit

Blap?  Is this a new technical climbing term?     These photos are wonderful.  (refer 'blap' to John for decision as to whether this can enter our lexicon). 

Thanks for talking about balance... all of this is now ringing a bell for me.  "The ability to breath normally when out of your comfort zone, is a big deal. Be proud of that progress,
It is also a real achievement to stand on your toes..."  Oh hell yes! 

I wanted to add another off/on topic musing.  2 years ago I took a series of brain tests... sort of an aging brain health baseline.  It tests processing speed, ability to focus and the ability to sustain  attention to stay on task and complete a goal , working memory and short-term memory, cognitive flexibility or ability to adapt quickly to new or changing information, and recognition memory (ability to recall important information).  I did ok then... but I was starting to worry about my memory a bit.

I took the same battery of tests today and was totally surprised at the improvement since 2016.  In fact, I was at 85th percentile overall--I mean this is a huge leap.  I'm going to credit climbing. I think climbing not only gets you physically strong, but forces you to get mentally quick and sharp. It surely requires extreme focus, problem solving, spatial awareness, memorization, decision making.  I'm still kind of in shock over this...

Anyone else think climbing is good for your brain?   

Dirt blap....

Perfectly acceptable, and synonymous with "taking a soil sample"

Exactly what I was talking about......

Garblebase.... ;) Nawmean?

Merry Xmas back at you and everyone here...

Suburban Roadside wrote: 
The Master Joe H Needs to tell how dangerous this moment is. in the pix '75, if he blows the moves will the swing will end with a dirt blap? (me, thinks so)

Definitely not a "Master" of any kind (just ask my wife).

Yes, the TR anchor is still a long way up and much further left of the photo. The roof is 23 feet off of flat clay ground alongside a creek. The top rope didn't really protect you until you were in the two-hand hang two moves at the end of this crux sequence. So if you fell from here you fell 23 feet flat on your butt/lower body and then the rope kicked in enough to keep your head off the deck. Unfortunately, it then dragged you out swinging over the creek at which point the rope stretch swung you back into the creek embankment. We each took that fall exactly once, never to be repeated. The route's name is 'Fiddler On The Roof" or just Fiddler for short.

It was similar to this route - 'Fear Of Flying' - but in this case, the hazard was coming off the route low and hitting a tree on a big swing. We never did, but a couple of years after we left town we heard a guy did come off low, made it out through the trees, but then on the swing back in broke his back on the tree we were worried about.


[ Hard to tell, but the start is still down and left aways of the lower lefthand corner of the pic ]

I still live and climb for roofs and am never happier in climbing than when my feet are higher than my hands. Russ has similar proclivities, but I just can't relate to harsh, scraping falls out of coarse offwidths (he's an actual master, I am clearly not worthy).