South Chasm View Wall Closure

"Geologic time includes now."

https://www.nps.gov/blca/planyourvisit/climbingclosures.htm

Six million pounds.  Hard to wrap your mind around that.  Maybe it'll dam the river.  I hope someone's put a video camera on it ;-)  

What is up with this? Has NPS ever done this before? Is this a new practice? I'm not familiar with NPS doing this before, here or in similair places likes Yosemite.A couple issues/questions I am concerned about...

A) This does not happen in Yosemite, the most comparable park in terms of geography and management requirements. Take this Aug 25, 2018 comment on Supertopo about Tis-sa-ack,

 "While Brandon was leading the 12th pitch (which is positioned on a giant exfoliation flake) we heard rock popping and cracking. The whole feature began shuddering. The end of the pitch (formerly C2 thin) is now a 3” crack and the pitch above (formerly a 3” crack) is now 9”. We bailed as quickly as we could and we strongly feel the whole 100m x 50m flake is about to come off. "

The above-mentioned flake is almost the exact same size as the BC flake in question, and moved MUCH more. Yet, Tis-sa-ack and that whole section of Half-Dome remain open; we climbers are left to evaluate the level of risk and our own comfort with accepting the inherent dangers of any subsequent rock climbing in such an area. 

A) This flake weights 6 million pounds or more, climbers are not going to be the causing factor when it goes. At that weight, a team on it is pretty meaningless. It might go next week, but much more likely next decade, century, millennium..

B) Climbing is inherently dangerous. Is the NPS aware that there is other loose rock in the Black that could cause dangerous falls/circumstances for climbers? Will they help us make decisions on the safety of our climbs from now on? Josh Wharton almost got brained by a several hundred pound block while top roping the Free Nose a couple years back. I've been on routes where I have pulled large sections of wall out, and gingerly pushed them back into balance before avoiding them. How can NPS help with this? Is it their duty to help with this?

C) What is/is there a process for closing/reopening this? Or will it just be closed until funding is secured to pay some geologist for a "Good to go", rubber stamp? Closed until it falls? Why is so much wall closed; even routes that would not be affected by the flake are restricted. Closing walls like this is dangerous ground for public use and access issues.

TL;DR Closing walls in an NPS setting for loose rocks to protect rock climbers is a slippery slope, and I feel a simple disclaimer/warning posted to climbers in several locations/venues would be adeqaute for doing due diligence in informing of added risk to an already decidedly risky endeavor.

I'm just bummed about not being able to get on Tague this fall, or maybe ever. 

Alex Styp wrote: What is up with this? Has NPS ever done this before?

Yes.

 Is this a new practice?

No.

 I'm not familiar with NPS doing this before, here or in similair places likes Yosemite.

Doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

A couple issues/questions I am concerned about...
<snip>

I'm just bummed about not being able to get on Tague this fall, or maybe ever.

And therein lies the crux......

Grand Teton closed a popular area this summer due to rockfall hazard above Inspiration Point.  RE the Black: I believe Topher Donahue in a Fb post over the summer talked about how they pre-placed some cams and bigbros and came back a week later and they had all fallen out due to it opening up/shifting 16 inches or more. Scary stuff. I think the closure is prudent.  

Alex Styp wrote: 
A) This flake weights 6 million pounds or more, climbers are not going to be the causing factor when it goes. At that weight, a team on it is pretty meaningless. It might go next week, but much more likely next decade, century, millennium..

Curious how you arrived at this conclusion?  

John Byrnes wrote: Six million pounds.  Hard to wrap your mind around that.  Maybe it'll dam the river.  I hope someone's put a video camera on it ;-)  

6 million lbs at 157 pounds per cubic foot is a slab about 100 feet x 20 feet x 20 feet thick.  

or, 10 mining haul trucks full.

Not that big, really.  Rock is dense.

Considering that a 10 pound rock falling from 200 feet or more can kill a helmeted climber if it hits, it seems a little silly for the NPS to close a cliff for rockfall hazard - by that logic no cliff should be open for climbing.

The fatality rate is 100%, no matter how you slice it...

Andy Novak wrote: Grand Teton closed a popular area this summer due to rockfall hazard above Inspiration Point.  RE the Black: I believe Topher Donahue in a Fb post over the summer talked about how they pre-placed some cams and bigbros and came back a week later and they had all fallen out due to it opening up/shifting 16 inches or more. Scary stuff. I think the closure is prudent.  

Word on the street the bigbros extended from the collars 1”. 

Honestly though, I don’t understand why they closed the wall.  If a 6 million pound rock took me out I’d be oddly ok with it. 

Closure is ridiculous.  If NPS was worrying about rock fall then there would be no climbing in parks.  Then state parks, USFS, and BLM would follow.

Curious why they put a sensor on that flake/block.  How about Texas or Boot flakes?

I think the NPS should put a hydraulic jack back there trundle the beast.