Head game

Briggs Lazalde wrote: If my headgame is fucked I pound a beer, send, and remind myself the moves are physically possible I'm just being overly mindful. Also breathing excersizes before hand. Won't help the overall anxiety but it'll help when u go to climb and the more you repeat the easier it gets. Briggs Lazalde and his affiliates do not condone irresponsible drinking.

Skip the beer. This guy’s tick list consists of 5.7-5.10? Yeah i can send those grades too while drunk... Eat right, train hard, and dont think about the consequences when climbing (being calculated of course, if it’s a safe fall, GO HARD) and just climb man. Itll all start to click, just takes time. And with that some people are just naturally better climbers than others.. sometimes it takes more work to compensate...

Not thinking about the consequences is how you get yourself killed.  Taking a realistic assessment of the risks involved in what you’re about to do should always be the first step.  If you’re not comfortable with those risks, back off.  If you are, commit.  Fully.  TS, check out the Rock Warrior’s way.

Ted Pinson wrote: Not thinking about the consequences is how you get yourself killed.  Taking a realistic assessment of the risks involved in what you’re about to do should always be the first step.  If you’re not comfortable with those risks, back off.  If you are, commit.  Fully.  TS, check out the Rock Warrior’s way.

Did you not see the calculated risk part of what i wrote..?  

Edit: ahh another 5.9 climber giving risk assessment advice... that’s why youre only climbing 5.9!!!!! 
Assess the fall potential, and if youre not going to hit anything or take any super gnarly falls, go for it! That’s why youve been training so hard on plastic right?? To actually be able to succeed on the climbs outside..? GO HARD!
If youre pushing yourself, you should be taking whips regularly.. learn the proper technique too for falling. It puts you in a pro active mode when it’s time to whip. Grab your knot and lead with your feet (just like swinging into a tree while youre on a rope swing.. you never stick your hands out, you lead with your feet. Same as lead falling.) This helps your mind transfer on to the next action, rather than just feeling like the victim of a lead fall.

Grab that knot and enjoy the ride!!!

Chris Hatzai wrote:

Did you not see the calculated risk part of what i wrote..?  

Edit: ahh another 5.9 climber giving risk assessment advice... that’s why youre only climbing 5.9!!!!! 
Assess the fall potential, and if youre not going to hit anything or take any super gnarly falls, go for it! That’s why youve been training so hard on plastic right?? To actually be able to succeed on the climbs outside..? GO HARD!
If youre pushing yourself, you should be taking whips regularly.. learn the proper technique too for falling. It puts you in a pro active mode when it’s time to whip. Grab your knot and lead with your feet (just like swinging into a tree while youre on a rope swing.. you never stick your hands out, you lead with your feet. Same as lead falling.) This helps your mind transfer on to the next action, rather than just feeling like the victim of a lead fall.

You obviously don’t know how to read a ticklist nor a thread.  The TS is not posting about super safe sport climbs, he’s posting about an incident in which he legitimately almost died on a trad route.  The rules that apply to overhanging sport do not apply to trad.  Period.  There are times when you absolutely can NOT fall or else you will become seriously injured or killed.

Haha yep! Seriously though, give the guy some confidence to push his limits, not dampen em...

———

I suggested he climb on bolts for a bit to regain some confidence on the rock.. also to assess the risks of the route, make sure theyre within reason, and to go for it. I never said anything about that other stuff... 

Early in my climbing journey, after I had learned to lead, I was pushing my performance on the grades. It was all about climbing the next harder grade. I had been on a pretty good burn and was on-sighting 10.b sport, which I now know can be all over the place depending where you are. I launched-up a 10.c at the end of a long day at the crag. The route climbed up between two flat-topped pillars just below the second bolt. I had a crappy right hand and was on tiptoes trying to clip the 3rd bot when my hand popped off. I had a finger on the carabiner, which was over my head when this happened, so I had a lot of rope out. I fell right between the pillars, and when the rope came taut, I had my legs pulled-up and my ass was scraping the ground. At the very least, I would have had 2 broken ankles if things would have been much different. In a worst-case scenario, a fall like that could have killed me. I got reeeeally lucky that the developer knew what the hell they were doing, and that we had set up the belay properly.
That fall scared the hell out of me, and I just stood there catching my breath, feeling that fear well-up. I knew what that meant, so the first thing I did after my heart rate returned to relative normal was to grab the rope and go lead a confidence-builder 5.9 with a fun roof that I warmed up on routinely. That kind of restored faith in my own judgement, and I think it was a wise move for me. Otherwise, that fall was so scary, I don't know how long it would have taken me to get back on the rock, if ever.  Glad I did though; I still like pushing myself, but climbing in general has been more about having a fun day in the mountains with good friends since.
So yeah, don't stay away too long if you love it, and try not to over-analyze your run-out.
cheers

Walt Barker wrote:  so the first thing I did after my heart rate returned to relative normal was to grab the rope and go lead a confidence-builder 5.9 with a fun roof that I warmed up on routinely. That kind of restored faith in my own judgement, and I think it was a wise move for me.

Did the same thing after my near miss.  Took 20 mins to cool down, then went for something easy to right my mind. 

Ted Pinson wrote:

You obviously don’t know how to read a ticklist nor a thread.  The TS is not posting about super safe sport climbs, he’s posting about an incident in which he legitimately almost died on a trad route.  The rules that apply to overhanging sport do not apply to trad.  Period.  There are times when you absolutely can NOT fall or else you will become seriously injured or killed

Whoa, whoa, whoa, this was not a near death experience. The problem with his head is that he doesn't trust his own judgement and he shouldn't based in his story.

Yo, OP. Keep climbing and you will get over it. Stay on the easy stuff for now and if you find yourself off route, back off.

Op, you just had a pretty normal alpine climbing experience. You should recognize the danger and simply make sure that things feel right before you set off through moves you can’t reverse next time.

As for real accidents, first summer leading I did the north ridge of Stuart. Planned to bivy on route and climbing with 4 liters of water. At the 5.8 squeeze I didn’t think to haul the pack. I couldn’t get it in it. So I led out the insecure slab to the right with no gear for well over 30 feet. I thought I was the shit. Nearly halfway up the route I came to a steep bit above slab, had a good piece at the base on a double sling. I was about 6 feet into it when I started cruxing out, the jams were shallow and insecure. I started sweating. Tried to pull my chalk around, it was snagged on my big ass 40l pack. When it popped free my greasy hand jam blew and I went sailing. Landed on the slab on my feet and flipped over backwards.

Smashed my left hip and head on the rock as I started tumbling. Came to rest just above a sharp rock, climbed back to last piece and built an anchor. We bivied there. I had a concussion, my hip was black and we were ~1,200 feet into a decently remote route. That night after realizing that I truly could have died I had a good cry. My partner led the rest of the route.

A week later I was leading at Index and never stopped climbing. Some days I did great and was calm on lead, still being bold. Other days I would just melt down on terrain way below my limit and lower off.

A year later I repeated the north ridge car to car this time. I simul climbed right through where I fell, wearing approach shoes. After that the lead head was back and I could also lead at my limit. 

Tradiban wrote: Whoa, whoa, whoa, this was not a near death experience. The problem with his head is that he doesn't trust his own judgement and he shouldn't based in his story.

Yo, OP. Keep climbing and you will get over it. Stay on the easy stuff for now and if you find yourself off route, back off.

Let’s say that blue tri-cam blew (oh boy, alliteration!).

My close call on trad was 15 months ago, and honestly I'm still struggling to get my head game back. It was a single pitch climb, and one that was well within my abilities, so I guess you can call the incident "a series of noob mistakes". I was about 40 feet above the deck, and about 15 feet above my last piece of pro, which was bomber in retrospect but as a novice trad leader I didn't exactly know how to evaluate it. I said to myself that it was OK and climbed on, because for 15 feet it was easy terrain. Anyway, I was at the crux and since the beta was of a sustained crux, I decided to plug in another piece. That would have been a smart decision 5-6 feet below where I was. While fumbling with the gear I slipped, fell ~33 feet, my ankle hit a ledge on the way down, so I flipped upside down and ended up at eye level with my belayer. Aside from a bruised ankle that caused some minor limping over the next day, I was physically fine, but mentally it changed everything for me. I was lucky my last piece held since the terrain below is bouldery so decking upside down would mean serious (head) injury.

Before this, I didn't have any nerves/fear issues, to the point of being reckless and doing massive run-outs (exhibit A - didn't plug pro at a good stance when I should have, and before that moved on without being 100% sure of my last piece). After calming myself down, I reasoned that getting back on the horse is the best way to go. So the day after, with a bad ankle, I led 4 pitches on an easy multipitch climb, and my head game was OK. It took it a while to sink in - two weeks later I was freezing and then shaking uncontrollably on a route 2 grades below the grade I fell on. I couldn't lead for months, but I followed a lot since my climbing partner was happy to log in more pitches on lead. Sometimes I felt shaky following too, when I knew a fall would mean a nasty swing. Those months were still amazing for me, because I got on harder routes, and cleaning the pitches I learned to evaluate protection better. I always tried to follow free and "send" the route too. I tried to read the Rock Warrior Way, but it didn't really help me. A year after the incident I got back to the route, and sent it almost in tears.

Ever since then I got an A2 pulley, so I don't lead and I don't know where my head game stands now. Am I cured, or will I be super shaky tying into the sharp end again? I really don't know. 

sDawg wrote: Don't trust just the passage of time. Time can actually be your enemy if you are engaging with risk in the wrong way psychologically. You keep the cerebral understanding and you are scared of a fall, but you lose the feeling of taking a fall or facing a risk and getting through it, and you get to where you can freeze up and not want to do anything.

I've had this apply to me in non-climbing hobbies. For me, if I take a break from something due to negative emotions, it's hard to remember the good things during the break. That being said, internalize Maya L's advice too.

..good luck?

Nathan, like others have said, climb something you know and is easy for you to get your confidence back.  Go back to Deception, which you liked, and get some reps in.  Funny story, I got off route on that one (also my second trad lead) and got stuck on the 5.9R section top of P2, Deception Direct, after I slab traversed right too early.  Had to down climb it and re-traverse left to finish.  That actually helped me.

Focus on the success instead of what “could have been.”

I would just get back out there and climb again.  Most of us have had similar experiences early in our trad careers. You didn't get hurt - just learn from it and move on.

The best thing you can do is get back on the horse.  For me, the more time that passes, the more I build it up in my mind, and the more anxiety I have about it.  Don't let the fear get to you or build it up to be more than what it actually was. Place good gear and trust yourself.  After all, it was your climbing ability that kept you from an injury that day.  Climbing ability = most underestimated piece of protection. 

Brandon. your brain is your best piece of protection. climbing ability is great. Strength builds confidence but without a good thought process and unfiltered risk assessment you can become just another strong climber who passed too early... 

I say you got a dose of reality checking. Multi pitch trad has risks and it’s a valid response to decide you don’t want to take them. Or to take them. 

Ted Pinson wrote: Guys, we’re really getting off route with this discussion.

But, are you gonna die? Because that is when the off-route discussion gets real, Yo.

;)

Lots of great stories and good things to think about, everyone. Thanks!