Bolt removal tools - resources, tips, how-to videos

Jayson Nissen wrote: Ken-
The doodad just rotates and uses mechanical threads to transfer rotational motion into motion along the length of the bolt. Since a drill also turns things it seems reasonable that it might be able to replace the doodad. Though there are many reasons that it might not work.

Why not just apply the spinner tool directly to the stud using high nut, a deep socket, and a simple thrust bearing, with maybe a spacer if the socket isn't deep enough? Just like when you tighten the bolt down for the first time and the threads pull out.

Ryan-
Your response isn't very useful as is.

Gregger's doodad, which is awesome, looks like it is about a foot long. How much force do you think can be applied to that handle by someone hanging from a rope? Say 300 lbs? So, 300 foot lbs of torque?

• A simple google search reveals an impact wrench that can supply >1,000 ft lbs of torque.
• As well it looks like greggers doodad use 13 threads per inch whereas a 3/8 stud has 16 threads per inch, which I think also gives the mechanical advantage to the stud.

It appears that the mechanical advantage of the torque arm is significantly less than that given by all the complicated bits inside of the drill and overall the 'mechanical advantage' goes to the impact driver applied directly to the stud. Is there another mechanical advantage that I am missing?

I figured that Gregger has already tried this out and it didn't work for some reason. The doodad seems like it would give a lot more control over the application of torque, making it less likely to snap the bolt shaft or to shear the threads.

You are neglecting friction.  The whole point of the doodad is to provide a mechanical advantage while decreasing the friction.  With a big heavy impact wrench and a variety of spacers, sure you could pull it with the spinner tool, but then you have to bring a big heavy impact wrench and a bunch of different sized spacers whereas the doodad is a single tool that will do it for you, weighs less than an impact wrench, and doesn't need batteries. 

Bump.
I included this excerpt in the first post:

5-Piece bolt removal
[9/30/2018 update:] Geir Hundal has come up with a different method that can work some of the time- If you have a draw stud that is 5/16" along its entire length, you simply remove the center bolt and screw the draw stud in instead. Keep turning until you can tell you are rotating the cone because you have engaged all the threads. Start pulling - if the cone and sleeve are a little bit rusty, the cone will push the sleeve out ahead of it rather than cleanly re-insert itself (if the hanger were in place, the sleeve would be sandwiched between the cone and bolt head, but with nothing but air outside the hole, there is room for the sleeve to slide out.) This method is more likely to work on slightly rusty bolts than on new ones. 

Why would the doodad have lower friction than an impact wrench?

Jayson Nissen wrote: Why would the doodad have lower friction than an impact wrench?

With the impact wrench you are trying to overcome the friction between the nut and the bolt that you are trying to remove.  With the doodad you are using a ball screw which contains bearings which have the sole purpose of reducing that friction.

Are you using a 5/16 - 18 or 5/16 - 24 die?

Found out: 5/16 - 18

I just put in an order that will hopefully come with the 1/2 20 threading.  The contact sent me this link which looks like a direct order item for future ref.

Driect Order 1/2 20 Ball Screw

mattm wrote: I just put in an order that will hopefully come with the 1/2 20 threading.  The contact sent me this link which looks like a direct order item for future ref.

Driect Order 1/2 20 Ball Screw

I ordered 20 that I will assemble and sell through the BCC. I requested a change to the outside end of the ball screw on this order- M10 threads on the small portion that typically has a 10mm diameter and a circlip cut. The circlip isn't strong enough to stop the ball nut if someone absentmindedly keeps turning the handle, but a nut and washer would do the trick.

Send them this updated drawing:


edit: also see this post about a design idea for the spacer tube -   mountainproject.com/forum/t…

I have 10 of the initial design I have yet to build up - been traveling. I'll build them in July when I am back home.  But they seem far longer than needed. And I dont see a need for the 'nut'... I like the 'bike wrench' idea and will probably just make a batch of these on a waterjet.  I hate custom tools, but well I guess the doodad is a custom tool and will get a custom wrench.

I met with a bunch of rebolters in Salt Lake and got some other ideas.  The main thing being using ACME threads as they seem a great middle-ground.  The guy who made it thinks over time the ball screw will not hold up.  But it required a custom piece for a 'end nut' that he welded on.  

Before you fire up the water jet and make something from scratch - this is what I plan to use. I've ordered one to make sure it will work, but it hasn't arrived yet. I plan to use a 3/4" oak or hickory dowel with copper pipe stops at the ends for a ~8" handle.

edit- regarding the length - For studs alone the whole tool could be much shorter. For ~4" long 5-piece bolts and the necessary 4" long draw stud you will run out of travel if the tool is much shorter.

I like the new M10 threads on the end.  Seems like you could use this nut to spin as well.  Not fast with a drill, but if I recall Geir had some success with the Hurly Jr just snow spinning a bit, pull a bit, repeat.    Curious how this new handle will work out.  Tho price-wise I think I can make the wrenches on the waterjet quite cheap.  I saw the very purdy one from cleatis in Salt Lake last fall.  Def a nice tool. I'm just looking to make these 10 cheap enough and work well enough to be useful.

Seems like we could probably get one of these china guys to make it all exactly as we want.

Also this idea of supporting the rock is kinda a big deal.  Thinking along the lines of interchangeable plastic inserts instead of the end cap.  Probably will break over time but they are replaceable.. I was also planning round tubing instead of square with a plastic keeper bushing/insert so you avoid the need for the new end-cap.

Nylon 1" thick spacers are pretty tough. We used them as spacers when we were using the Greenlee punch driver method. UHMW plastic is pretty slippery, but also good in compression. It's certainly easier to machine than aluminum. I'll check to see if Colorado Plastic Products in Louisville has a 1.5" x 1.5" x 0.25" square tubing.
Northwestern Tool (the place that makes the threaded inserts) makes a spherical washer that might be useful in aligning the tool with the hole, but it would be difficult not to drop it- they make a 5/8" ID version that would be perfect, but I don't know how you would secure it.

We broke a lot of bolts early on with the round spacer tube because the friction of the cheap ACME threads against the nut/handle translated into torsion on the rusty bolt under high tension. The ball screw is so efficient that it is possible that the indexing square nut & tube might be overkill, but it's hard to tell. The times that you crank the hardest on the handle are when you have spun the bolt too little, and you begin to max out the tension as it re-engages. If the whole tool turns inside that round spacer tube instead of just the ball nut, the bolt will break. You wouldn't necessarily notice the twist since the spacer itself doesn't move. 

Good to know this history. My main reason for the round is so I can simplify the ends with just needing bushings on either side.  But maybe there is something else out there to put the ends on the square tube.  Basically looking to make this as simple as the Hurley jr.  

I have a buddy who is a very good machinist in Portland - been doing it for 50yrs I'd say and has a personal shop bigger than anything but the biggest commercial places. I'll see if he has any ideas before I build anything. 

Found an even better bracket for the ball screw - short MTB stem is built for a 1 1/8"/28mm fork. Just add a dowel for the handle. I'm looking around for local used parts before ordering a bunch of these from Shenzhen. Looks lightweight and strong enough.

Confirmed: most threadless bike stems are a perfect fit for the 28mm ball nut housing. Add a wooden/aluminum handle and you are set.

Gregger Man wrote: Confirmed: most threadless bike stems are a perfect fit for the 28mm ball nut housing. Add a wooden/aluminum handle and you are set.

How much torque before it slips?  I may have one or two of these lying around in 120mm length!  Win

mattm wrote:

How much torque before it slips?  I may have one or two of these lying around in 120mm length!  Win

A bolt head sticking out of one of the six holes in the ball screw would stop the slipping, but I think it will grip sufficiently. Think of the punishment that a MTB fork and handlebars takes - the ball screw is the same size as the bike fork. Body weight on the handle would translate into enough force to break a new bolt, so this should work well for our purposes.

Finally got around to putting one of these together!  Still need to add the cable clip-in loop, but the main tool is assembled, and I'm pretty happy with how it came together!

I was a little intimidated by the metal working (I'm more of a wood-worker), but it wasn't that bad.  A few comments:

• I highly recommend using some sort of metal cut-off tool (angle grinder, dremel, etc).  Greg talks about using a hacksaw in many steps, likely to keep people from thinking they need special tools to do this, but if you don't have a power tool option for cutting metal, you'll be spending a LOT of time with a hacksaw.
• Having a bench grinder was pretty nice too, but less critical than a cut-off tool.  You could probably do ok with flat and round hand files.
• Folding the ends back on the spacer tube was pretty tricky, and didn't work very cleanly (end isn't square anymore).  On another thread, I think Greg is reinforcing the end with a section of aluminum channel instead of folding the ends back.  I may try that next time.  I had a hard time getting 1/8" holes in the corners (drill bit wanders on the rounded edge, even after a center punch.  Perhaps better with a drill press - don't have one), which meant that the cuts are all slightly different lengths and the ends didn't fold over square.  I suspect the rock will deform the end a little and make this not matter, but I am concerned it may cause an angled pull on the bolt.  We'll see...
• Drilling the hole for the angled stopper screw was tricky.  After drilling a hole in the first side, and leaning the drill to gouge out the hole to an angle, I ignored my reservations and tried to start drilling the hole in the second side at an angle.  Immediately broke the drill bit.  If you drill a starter hole in the second side for the angled drill bit to engage, then it works fine.  Tapping this hole was easier than I expected.
• I couldn't find a 9mm retaining ring at McGuckins!  I don't know where Greg found one, but if McGuckins didn't have one, I imagine an average Ace Hardware won't either.  I ended up just buying a stop collar with a set screw, but the ID was slightly off and didn't want to fit.  Had to grind out the inside, which was a PITA.  I'll be looking for a better long term solution.  

Pretty psyched to finally have this thing together, and can't wait to try it out!  Huge thanks to Greg for all of the work he has done in documenting how to do this, and to the others that helped with the development of these tools!

A few questions about spinner tools.  I got the threaded inserts from Northwestern Tool.  I assume I want to trim the coupler nut back to the black line I drew (at the combined length of the sds chuck and the thread inserts)?  Is that right?

Also, is that red material that comes on the threads red loctite?  Is that enough, or should I add more?  I've never used red before and don't know how much it takes for a "permanent" bond.

Rich Farnham wrote: A few questions about spinner tools.  I got the threaded inserts from Northwestern Tool.  I assume I want to trim the coupler nut back to the black line I drew (at the combined length of the sds chuck and the thread inserts)?  Is that right?

Also, is that red material that comes on the threads red loctite?  Is that enough, or should I add more?  I've never used red before and don't know how much it takes for a "permanent" bond.

If the coupler nut you bought is all one diameter/thread that matches the SDS chuck adapter thread, and the silver threads (top right piece) match that but have 3/8-16 on the inside, then I would add red locktite to the outside of he thread insert and screw it into the coupler nut just far enough that it doesn’t stick out. I wouldn’t bother trimming it. I also wouldn’t fix it to the chuck adapter. I’ve found it helpful to have a “strike bolt” that screws into the coupler so I can put it on the wedge bolt, hit the strike bolt with the hammer to unseat the clip, the swap the chuck adapter on and spin. I have better luck with that than using the drill’s hammer mode

I would add more Loctite to make sure the insert doesn't come loose.  I had one back out on me and it wasn't good(I always carry a spare spinner tool in case this happens).  Also.  there is a bit of a debate on how deep the insert threads should be which screw onto the stud.  Sometimes I just screw the threads all the way down on the bare stud and hope there are enough threads on the stud to bottom it out.  Other times I put a nut on the stud first and use that in opposition with the coupler nut to lock it all up for spinning.