Gordon's Hangover pillar is loose

Anyone remember Catalyst, Old Reliable and Knuckle Buster?

Some active geology up there.

I've thought the upper flake/crack has gotten bigger over the years too.

I'd hate to see it go, but, would hate to see it go when there's folks around.

That’s pretty interesting!
Geologically active areas, including landslides tend to remain active for periods much longer than a human lifespan, so I wouldn’t be surprised if you are correct.

I have also heard of rockfalls in the area over the past couple years.  But if the flakes goes (I neither agree nor disagree it should go) is there really anyway that the grade gets above 5.9+?  Pretty sure that grade will probably work.  

Dean Raynes wrote: I have also heard of rockfalls in the area over the past couple years.  But if the flakes goes (I neither agree nor disagree it should go) is there really anyway that the grade gets above 5.9+?  Pretty sure that grade will probably work.  

5.9+ = anything between 5.9 and 11b, so I think the grade can stay the same. 

It's been years since I climbed Gordon's,,, I do remember a sit-down rest! If there is a crack at the pillar"s base, 2-part clear epoxy will work miracles for that porous granite. If you can get the epoxy into the crack/seam, I'd vote for that over a chain with bolts on either side of the pillar. The epoxy works amazing well and no one will ever see it. The pillar will be more solid that it's ever been!

Brian in SLC wrote: 
I've thought the upper flake/crack has gotten bigger over the years too.

We have all gotten bigger over the years Brian.  haha

It's time for it to go.  After the rock fall in the gully, Doug put up one of the best new routes in the canyon.
Just have Brad go up with his big biceps and finally just rip it off.  It will be a sad day to see it go for sure.

Massive exfoliation of an entire face and a loose pillar are not the same thing.

If the block truly is loose, the community should attempt to preserve the route as Brian Smoot has suggested. Trundling should be the last resort.

I remember inspecting that pillar a decade ago and being amazed and startled upon seeing it wasn't actually attached anywhere to the wall- it is just leaning against it and had an obvious crack all along the base. Honestly I have always felt a bit sketched and extra cautious climbing up and around it...

It seems to me from memory the dimensions of the block/pillar that is the sit down rest is approximately 4ft tall by 12-18 inches thick?  Around 1000 lbs?

What if an "engineering" attempt to keep it attached were to fail?

Its always spooked me too.  Hate to see it go but seems safest and most natural option, otherwise I vote for glue and a chain.

Depending on how much of the pillar comes off and what it leaves behind (flat ledge vs sloping ramp vs blank dihedral) it might make getting into the flake significantly harder and getting into the direct even worse... Does anyone make a 1" x 36" boltto go through the flake into the back wall? Is filling the back with glue going to provide much holding power? Chains may be on the unsightly side of things...

There's a much larger and much scarier flake to the right of this spot which is directly on the rappel line. It's a giant arrowhead perched above the 1st pitch belay for Perhaps/the alternate start to GHD. You actually come really close to stepping on top of if when doing GHD. I've been looking at it for years and it also seems to be on the move, there's a convenient black chickenhead at the top which sits half on the detached flake and half on the wall above. I swear it's been shifting to the side, the edges don't match any longer and they sure looked perfectly aligned about 10 years ago. I don't expect anyone to be yanking on it while climbing but it's another good example of how much rockfall potential exists in that gully.

I think someone needs a go-and-see.  Can the route still be climbed at near the same grade without that loose flake?  My bet is yes.  If so, maybe it should go.

If it fully changes the grade and nature of both Gordon's and the Direct...then lets reconsider.

Actually I have seen some successful implementation of a 12-18" length of 3/4" threaded rod drilled through a flake and glued into the solid stone behind it. I think Louis Anderson did  this in numerous places at the Riverside Quarry to reinforce large granite flakes. It was capped with an extra large square washer that was about 2x2 inches of 1/4 steel before being locked on with a nut... this approach could work and be less conspicuous than chain...kinda of expensive though with the need to buy the extra large and extra long bit, and a heavy duty drill would be needed. 

While I might recoil a bit at the thought of our precious Gate Buttress environs being treated as a quarry...I guess I'm reminded that a fair amount of the rock is sitting downtown...

I have a long, large diameter drill bit.  That rock is fairly soft.  I think a standard drill, a couple of battery packs, and you'd be good to go.

You could also go pioneer on it.  Hand drill some holes and use wedges.  I think there's an old iron drill bit still stuck in the rock on the hike up to the Gate (where the boulder for "greasy kids stuff", the little up climb to the Gate, used be be).

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1975/10/discovery/quarrying-the-temple-granite?lang=eng

I'm thinkin' you'd want to dress in period clothing.

Period clothing...EW

For some must push and some must pull,
As we go marching up the hill;
So merrily on our way we go
Until we reach the Valley-o.

Edit to add:  You got this, Brad.

Boissal did you get that Invite I sent you to climb together?

bheller wrote: Boissal did you get that Invite I sent you to climb together?

10 years ago when you wanted to do Dark Horse? I got it, I moved your email to my spam folder to avoid having to decline because I was too scared.

bheller wrote: Actually I have seen some successful implementation of a 12-18" length of 3/4" threaded rod drilled through a flake and glued into the solid stone behind it. I think Louis Anderson did  this in numerous places at the Riverside Quarry to reinforce large granite flakes. It was capped with an extra large square washer that was about 2x2 inches of 1/4 steel before being locked on with a nut... this approach could work and be less conspicuous than chain...kinda of expensive though with the need to buy the extra large and extra long bit, and a heavy duty drill would be needed. 

This option is probably the most inconspicuous. Probably would require a bit of practice on the ground though. We can crowdsource a 3/4" x 36" SDS bit, they cost about $100. There are shank extensions out there which are probably cheaper than buying a monster bit though. And a regular drill will chew through LCC granite like butter, even for massive holes... A couple of threaded stainless rods with a nice fat washer on the end would provide great footholds and the belayer is too far to call a dab. Sounds like a win-win.

 

Has anyone contacted the SLCA? The organization has secured access through a lease that includes Gordon's and the potential liability from harebrained schemes. Imo, any specific action in this case needs to be handled by the organization. A risk assessment and monitoring by qualified professionals could be helpful - Greg? Brad? Sanctioned cleaning/trundling by rope access technicians starts to look like a more realistic solution than securing the flake mechanically.

I had the same experience as the OP 15 years ago, but you know what they say about geologic time...

Boissal . wrote...Does anyone make a 1" x 36" boltto go through the flake into the back wall? Is filling the back with glue going to provide much holding power? 

@Jim Titt is a regular contributor in the bolt and anchor forum. He manufactures and tests glue-in  bolts. He makes them of all lengths and has specifically made rods and bolts for this application.  Perhaps he is one of the engineers that should be consulted. Perhaps he can create a specific length and girth rod for the project. Assuming someone is going to go sit on the thing and take measurements.  
Trail building and graffiti removal is nice but do we need to call SLCA about loose rocks on routes?  
Whatever you do though, don’t write “NO!” Next to it with chalk. /