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New and experienced climbers over 50, #3

Bran Sabo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 31

38 year old climber here.  Just following along, learning what I can.  Anyone on here that regularly climbs at NRG or RRG (i.e. Midwest climbers)?

Lori Milas · · Joshua Tree, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 240
wendy weiss wrote: Have you considered looking for a new doctor? It's one thing for a doctor not to have experience with active seniors (she should be glad for the opportunity to learn something), but it's another thing to be pushing unnecessary drugs. (Not talking about vaccines and flu shots, but the other stuff.) I can't believe there are no doctors better suited to you in your neck of the woods.   

Hey Wendy... There are literally hundreds of doctors here within Kaiser, and outside the network as well.  All you have to do is pull up the endless list and click on one whose picture you like. :-)  But I have learned that they all have the same guidelines... the same computer-driven protocols.  So, for the ordinary mamograms, broken bone, sore throat they are really great.  But ask about hormones, or sport medicine, or anything outside those very rigid guidelines and there is an uproar.

I have had my own cash pay doc for many years, and he would fall more under the "integrative medicine" or functional medicine label.  Our relationship always works out well--the only time I refused to listen was when Lyme came up.  

I had just hoped that I could bring all my medical needs under one roof... like a 'normal' person.    
Lovena Harwood · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 350
Lori Milas wrote: 

There's times I can understand why so many climbers are present or past engineers... I get the 'figuring' part of this sport.  I enjoy climbing within my limit where there's enough energy to problem solve, to contemplate a route and find options.  Maybe it's the mental game, too... learning all the ways in which a head trip can end a good climb.  

Yup....former process manufacturing engineer here! Problem solving, which climbing is in part, is super fun!


Lori, I love this photo of you!
ErikaNW · · Golden, CO · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 410
Lori Milas wrote: Speaking of training...  Senor, I thought of you and laughed yesterday when Ryan added downclimbing to our new wall laps.  Somehow I thought climbing down would be a piece of cake...
Downclimbing is GREAT training (it shreds your muscles though - it is pretty much all eccentric movement (controlling lowering against gravity) which builds connective tissue strength, but you really need a day off or of easy stuff to allow recovery after those workouts. It's also really good to practice downclimbing (OLH pointed this out) for when you need to do it to get back on route, or figure out a section on lead.

My doctor is unhappy with me because I do not fit in any of the charts she has... she has never encountered a really active senior.  She has insisted upon statins, vaccines, blood pressure meds, and lower thyroid meds.  (even though my cholesterol and BP and thyroid are perfect.)  
Does Kaiser not have any sports med doctors? I'm certain they do in Denver - try searching their specialties and see if you can see someone like that maybe? Also - I think you mentioned you are diabetic, the statins may be extra preventative due to that complicating factor even though your cholesterol is good now. Or maybe it is just the 'senior' drug cocktail protocol - question your doc on WHY you are being prescribed the drug, and remember you don't have to follow their recommendations. You should be treated as a partner in your healthcare (the majority share holding partner!)

 I've personally been in a kind of deep funk for the last month, tired, unmotivated... am I'm wondering why.  Is this too much climbing?  But, there's only one way to find out.   What I really think is that a week away, playing in the desert, will restore my spirit.    
Well that just sounds like classic overtraining symptoms! :)

I cannot seem to make this text box go away! :)
ErikaNW · · Golden, CO · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 410
Lori wrote: What does the grade mean to you?  I don't think a 12 or 13 (outside) are in my future.  I'd love to see pictures of your 14 when you get there.  

Jon W wrote: What it means to me: it's just a target. When I hit it, I'll raise it. When I fail I'll readjust.  I know how hard  .14 is, so I'm not discounting that.  Its real fucking hard. It is also means that I've climbed that one route. DOESN'T mean I can do any others.

Lori - I think what Jon answered is absolutely perfect. He is pushing his limit, which happens to be 5.14 - really, really hard for him. Your limit might end up being 5.11 - which will be the same really, really hard for you.  We all set targets - enjoy pushing ourselves to reach them, and we either get it or we don't. But for most climbers I know, it isn't so much about achieving the number as the process you go through getting there. The cool thing is you never know where that limit will end up being - it's a moving target.

Advice to you? Slow down! Enjoy the learning curve you are on. Enjoy the process. Learn as you go and enjoy the learning (it never ends by the way). There really is no need to rush things - enjoy where you are at in the moment. That picture that you posted looks like you are doing just that. :)
Jeffrey Constine · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 674

Has Jon completed 5.14? Looking at his tick list I don't see it. mostly 12s like normal humans. Has he on-sighted a 5.13 ? hmmm. Kudos for trying :).

Jeffrey Constine · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 674

Maybe? I put up a route that Honnald nor Hill or Cosgrove or anyone I know has repeated it. I watched honnald and J Kinder try it. No go. I got the FA with Scott Cosgrove on belay. Prob 13c or d. I rated it 8a or 13b R  you can break both legs if you F up ledge impact deal so it will never get downrated

Jeffrey Constine · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 674
Honnold taking a crack a it on TR.
Jeffrey Constine · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 674

Try it one day for kicks no approach. get out your car and climb deal. It took me a long time to send. After 2 busted ankles hitting the ledge. The pro and most people spend a day or 3 and say this is the most baffling crux lol for a little POS.

Jon Welchans · · Longmont Colorado · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 75

sent

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974

Jon, good luck- send it!

Andrew Rice · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 11
Jeffrey Constine wrote:
Little Paige

I know Paige. She's a crusher. 

Andrew Rice · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 11

Lori, glad to hear you got to enjoy some downclimbing. That stuff is HARD. Also, ratings going UP don't match how hard (or not) it is going down. I led and then downclimbed a nice 5.10c the other day only to get totally baffled by the 5.9 next to it on the next lap. Theoretically that shouldn't happen but it sure did to me. Fatigue also doesn't help your precision.

Today I whipped more times than I can count trying to lead a 5.12 I've had my eye on. Threw in the towel a few moves from the top. But I'll get it next time.

Lori Milas · · Joshua Tree, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 240
Jon W wrote: Haven't sent one yet, but I will soon. It shouldn't be important to anyone but myself.  It is a personal goal and I hesitate to share it with anyone other than those that I will be with when I send it. I only shared the info in my previous post, because this is about training and I've had a lot of success and thought I'd share for once. Usually I don't. 6 months ago I couldn't do any moves on this route. a month and a half ago I finally got linkage but they were short. Tues I did the whole 22 move crux 3 times in a row. I couldn't do that before I went back through another training cycle. Just sharing what I have learned.

Hey Jon!  SO glad you did share, and I hope we do get pictures, if you feel like it.  There were a lot of responses to my question about 'what do the numbers mean to you..." and I think my question was misunderstood.  I know we are each trying to climb goals, and at our limit... and watch those limits amazingly grow.  Looks like in 6 months your hard training has changed your climbing a lot.  Congratulations! 

I think my question was more to an earlier discussion where folks like rgold said they aren't interested in numbers any longer--but they are out there for the entire life experience. So WHY do people climb?  

The more I thought about it, the more I realized that what stays with me about climbing are aspects that have nothing to do with sending a grade--this morning I had to delay my trip for a day because I suddenly got sick... and what I am missing is the chance to smell the desert air, re-meet a chuckwalla, and stand at the bottom of a route and tie in.  Kind of an afterthought--I wonder if I can truly climb a J Tree level 5.9.  Thinking about the arete on my upcoming route, wondering about that.... but man... it is the process of a climb, and the experience at the top, that I dream about.  I can see that empty slab with no holds in my mind... and the process of sorting it out, finding some fissure that might work... 

But you guys... Constine, Carl, and others here... are training hard to get that level of climbing and the send you aspire to.  Carl has shared a lot over the months his total focus on improving over time... strength, endurance.  You are on your way to meeting some goals most of us will never approach.    

Since this is a thread for 'over 50'... a lot of the discussion is on training... trying to know compared to younger folks what is too much, what is enough and what is damaging. You can apparently hit it hard... and it's working!  I was reluctant to put myself into the hands of a 27 year old trainer.... would he get that I have to go a little slower, there might be things that are out of my reach... yet still help me find 'my' limit?  I now believe he will.   What I do know is I'd like not to end this time because of a busted ankle or finger... and so training is important.  

So we're all out there for different reasons....  

PS. It's also been interesting to hear about people's other activities: golf, dirt bikes, surfing, hiking.  Problem is, it is really hard to do this (climb) and have a job, and a family, and tie in other activities. Balance.  :-)

Lori Milas · · Joshua Tree, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 240
Señor Arroz wrote: Lori, glad to hear you got to enjoy some downclimbing. That stuff is HARD. Also, ratings going UP don't match how hard (or not) it is going down. I led and then downclimbed a nice 5.10c the other day only to get totally baffled by the 5.9 next to it on the next lap. Theoretically that shouldn't happen but it sure did to me. Fatigue also doesn't help your precision.

Today I whipped more times than I can count trying to lead a 5.12 I've had my eye on. Threw in the towel a few moves from the top. But I'll get it next time.

Senor... I am STILL laughing over this!  Life never ceases to amaze me.  And climbing always throws a curve ball.  Nowhere did I say I 'enjoyed' downclimbing.   

Just a technical question  regarding cardio-endurance... is that once or twice a week session of laps and now downclimbing enough to really make a difference?  I'm still trying to find that spot of enough/too much.  How hard do you have to work to really make a difference in endurance?  

Dallas R · · Traveling the USA · Joined May 2013 · Points: 191
ErikaNW wrote:  I cannot seem to make this text box go away! :)
On the icon bar above the this edit box you will see " marks.  Increase adds a box, decrease removes a box.
Jeffrey Constine · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 674

I don't train lol never have. just climb many days.

Tom Hickmann · · Bend, OR · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 35

This discussion has been very interesting to read about training and pushing climbs. I climbed my first V0 last Christmas and thought it was really hard. Then I climbed my first 5.6 on auto belay a few days later and was terrified. But I just kept doing it over and over. I now do V3's and they still feel really difficult and 5.11s and I still get scared. But I still have a blast when I am outside on a 5.6. For me this is about being outside, being with great people who are usually very fun and funny. I never feel the need to be victorious over a climb. I just climb and I am thankful I can at whatever level. I tell my non climbing friends that climbing for me is like yoga.... except its yoga with consequences. It focuses my mind to think past the discomfort. I am still scared of taking falls, but I see that as a good thing. It keeps my head in the game and keeps complacency away.

John Barritt · · The 405 · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,083
Tim Lutz wrote:

Here you go Tim,

I don't always boogie, but when I do I wears a helmet... ;)
Lori Milas · · Joshua Tree, CA · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 240

With some time to kill... I'm relooking at Double Cross.  Is this how you all use beta?  Does anyone study pictures before or after a climb?  I wanted to know where it went wrong before, and what I could do to improve this time.  Body positioning... right arm/left arm, but I think it might come down to basic strength and just plain experience?  Side by side...  Nelson showing me how to do it, me giving it a go.  I can still hear him saying "Take a smaller step up." "Stand up on that left leg!"  (trying! )  I can see that he got right up on his left leg and into that crack... no dawdling.     (I finished the climb, but it felt pitiful.    )  Lovena, you would nail this crack climb on the first go!  

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