Grand Teton - Car to Car

Hi all,
If I were to do the Grand via Upper Exum car to car, how long should it take me to hike from the TH to the Lower Saddle? Right now I can hike about 1,100 feet an hour at a comfortable pace, without pushing hard. So that would take me about 4.5-5hrs. Is that typical for a car to car push, or do I need to be faster? Those that have done the car2car, how long did it take you to get to the Lower?

Trying to decide between a car to car or just camping at the Moraine.

thanks.

If 1100 ft of gain per hour is your comfortable pace, I think you'll likely want to camp if you prefer the experience to be on the more enjoyable side of life. You could do it in a push, but I feel that pace won't lend itself to an enjoyable experience late in the day.

I enjoyed doing the Grand car to car at that pace (TH to upper saddle in 5 hours).
I'd only pack camping gear in if you are going to do multiple objectives.

sandrock wrote: Hi all,
If I were to do the Grand via Upper Exum car to car, how long should it take me to hike from the TH to the Upper Saddle? Right now I can hike about 1,100 feet an hour at a comfortable pace. So that would take me about 4.5-5hrs. Is that typical for a car to car push, or do I need to be faster?

Trying to decide between a car to car or just camping at the Moraine.

thanks.

A few thoughts:

Check the weather.  If you start at midnight with your pace, you will be on the mountain late in the day.   If the weather is clear that may be fine, but otherwise you run the risk of being caught in a storm.

I am sure it was a slip on your end, but you know that the Upper Exum starts quite far below the upper saddle?

Finally, your hiking time is only as small part of the equation.  How quickly can you move through several thousand feet of 3rd to low 5th class terrain?

In my opinion, in a day climbs are often easier overall but tend to be long days.  Best of luck!!

Philip Magistro wrote:

A few thoughts:

Check the weather.  If you start at midnight with your pace, you will be on the mountain late in the day.   If the weather is clear that may be fine, but otherwise you run the risk of being caught in a storm.

I am sure it was a slip on your end, but you know that the Upper Exum starts quite far below the upper saddle?

Finally, your hiking time is only as small part of the equation.  How quickly can you move through several thousand feet of 3rd to low 5th class terrain?

In my opinion, in a day climbs are often easier overall but tend to be long days.  Best of luck!!

Yes thank you. I meant the Lower Saddle.  I'll be going with a friend that has climbed the route several times, so not too worried about time once we get on the route.

I'd highly recommend doing the grand in a car to car push.  If you are fit and going at a good pace, getting to the lower saddle should take 3.5-4.5 hours.  

If our climb serves as a vague reference point:

We went in a group of 5. Started from the car at 3am. I believe it took us about 4 hours to the lower saddle. Climbed the Petzoldt Ridge as one party of two and one party of three. We moved at a decent pace pitching everything out and then soloed the Upper Exum (except for two short sections where we belayed a member of our group). I forget the times when we hit the saddles, the summit, etc. But we turned on our headlamps as we started going back down the lower saddle.

Overall we had a 21 hour day, car to car. I think if you are in decent shape, everyone moves moderately efficiently, and is comfortable with some low 5th scrambling, you could do it in 17-20 hours I would imagine.

Edit: the Lower Exum should go considerably faster than the Petzoldt Ridge. My estimate was taking the same route we did, but going up the full exum I'd imagine under 18 hours wouldn't be too hard to do

Starting at 3am would put you just before the lower saddle at first light to help make the scree fields go easier.  Then keeping the pace, you'd summit at 9am and be back at the car at 3pm... ish

Here's a friend's Strava track to inspire you: https://www.strava.com/activities/1755229102/overview. About 5 1/2 hours from Lupine Meadows to the summit and 4 1/2 hours for the descent. After biking 22 miles from Jackson. And swimming a mile across Jenny Lake. And then the same in reverse.

The fastest known time for the round trip from Lupine Meadows is an incredible 2h 53m. https://fastestknowntime.com/route/grand-teton-wy.

Thanks everyone, I have a few more weeks until the climb so I'm going to do a lot of hiking and see if I can cover the distance faster. Sounds like aimjng for 4-4.5 hours is good. 

Those FKT's, in addition to being irrelevant for anyone but the elite few, are for the shorter and easier Owen-Spaulding route.

I have a different take, which is that I actually like being in the mountains and enjoy spending more time there rather than less.  The prettiest campsites are in the Meadows, but these are also the furthest from the summit.

Kinda like rgold's put...nice to spend a night up there (or two).

Looking at my notes...my only car-to-car Grand trip was 20 years ago (nearly to the day).  I think we got to the lower saddle in 4 hours.  Took a break.  Total time to summit was 9 hours and a leisurely time out for 15 hours car-to-car.  Didn't seem too bad at the time, and, we didn't push it.

Route finding, if you've never been up there...may be the crux...

A big part of the reasoning for ctc  is not having to stress over getting a permit..

True, but when I was there last summer there didn't seem to be that much of a problem getting permits if you showed up at the ranger station at 6 am or so.  But I didn't try to camp in the Meadows last summer so don't know how hard it might have been.  (I took the picture on a ctc solo conditioning hike up South Teton, something that people almost always do ctc, sometimes including the easy scramble up Middle Teton as well.)

Many years ago we'd go up and camp at the Platforms for a week...

The other thing to keep in mind for going c2c on any route is the wait for the guides.  I went up Lupine to the Upper Exum and was just under 12 hours, leaving at 1 in the morning, but we burned at least 2 hours waiting for a guided party to rap their 6 clients down the one rapel route.  We met them just before they were setting rappels, and they refused to let us rap through. If you can't be moving through the moraine by 430am, it's going to get very crowded.  We blew past probably 30 guided clients in headlamps, and being behind those groups, even to get to the base of the route, would be a nightmare.  I passed a guided party just past Wall St., and the guide was very, very aggressive in not wanting me to move past, despite her being in a party of 3 and her two climbers being relatively unfit. If you can't be in front of these groups going cart-to-car, I would definitely walk in the night before and wake up earlier.

Colin,
I think it is a matter of luck with the crowds. I soloed the Upper Exum, and the Owen Spaulding in my late 60's and did pass just a few climbers, but neither gave me any hassle. I suppose if you were roped up with a partner, there might be more resistance trying to pass.
Both times I came directly from the East Coast, and the climb took about 16 hours round trip.
About 20 years ago, my son and I soloed it in much faster time, when I was in much better shape.

Steve. you are a beast. even after 3 weeks of acclimation I felt pretty sick up on Buck Mtn and that's a shorter day than the grand.. Threw up over the edge of the north face but summited :)

I have also done the grand in a car to car push, and to be honest, I really think that it is the best idea in there. It took us something like 3.5 to 4 hours, not more. Oh man, I still remember that experience, it was back in 2016, and we actually started at 4 am as it was pretty hot outside. The best thing about that place, were the views! I still remember my dumbass brother!! He actually crashed his car in there, and he has done that soooo freaking hard, that he had to scrap it, as it was totalled and the engine was dead! He was soooo happy when he got the paycheck from https://www.scrapi.com saying that he got even more money from scrapping the car than if he would have sold it.

From my notes / comments on our OS. Descent time is completely dependent on how many other morons are up there.

We were a reasonably fit party. Started hike at 6am. Reached the saddle at 10am. Summited, and got back to the saddle at 430pm. It would have been much faster but we got stuck behind some other parties climbing and rappelling. Got back to cars around 8PM. We clocked 16 miles round trip.

Have some respect for yourself and others - know how to rappel before attempting this. Practice a few times. Don't learn on the fucking Grand Teton and slow everyone down. Practice at your local crag, or even in a stairwell to get the hang of it. Practice getting your ATC on and off quickly. You probably don't need a prussik for this. You wouldn't believe the shenanigans I saw watching 20 people rappel in front of me, from comical to downright dangerous. People hooking their thumbs in the ATC guide loop to accelerate their rappel or something (wtf??), to pocket knives flying out of pockets mid rappel and almost killing people. The worst was the idiotic rope handling that added 2-3 hours to everyone's descent. Practice flaking your rope and setting up a rappel in smooth, efficient manner.

Yvonne Clarkson wrote:

I have also done the grand in a car to car push, and to be honest, I really think that it is the best idea in there. It took us something like 3.5 to 4 hours, not more.

If your post reads correctly, 3.5 hours car to car is among the faster times ever posted. I don't know if making suggestions off your elite fitness is relevant for the general masses. To do this you must have foregone rappelling, any ropes, most contingencies like a pack, spare jacket, food, and even much water carrying capacity. 

I'm impressed and inspired by your time, but it doesn't really lend itself to the logistics discussion of he common climber looking to do the Grand. 

2 1/2 year old thread, folks.