Ready for flyboys?

Thanks very much for the advice.

We decided to spend 1 day doing some practice with various multipitch procedures, and do a small 3-pitch multipitch.
Then, we will camp the night and start the climb early in the morning to make sure there is no rush. We will intend to shuttle down, but we will be prepared to rap if necessary.

In order to climb in a speedy way, my partner will lead most routes, and I will carry the water and food. We will bring 12L of water. No haulbag.

Rock Climber wrote: I will carry the water and food. We will bring 12L of water. No haulbag.

Dang, so you will be carrying around 30 lbs on your back to start!!! With that and all the pee breaks you guys need, it will be a long day. If I were doing this with a competent partner on a hot day, I might bring 2L apiece in small backpacks, camelback or clipped to the harness. Split the load, with maybe a little more to the follower. The lighter you go, the faster you move and vice versa. The better you hydrate the night before the less you need to carry.

Otherwise sounds like you have the right idea, let us know how it goes!

I've heard you can link many of the pitches with a 70, does anyone know which pitches you can do this?

Thanks

I think you guys that are advising her to climb an 18-pitch route when she has only ever climbed one pitch at a time are being irresponsible.

I was a beginner once, I remember clearly being a beginner, I have climbed a lot with beginners, I am all for beginners pushing their own limits. Traffic jams suck for everyone and we all have to share out there. I once believed "they can get up earlier" was a good justification for me going at my own pace no matter what, now that I have a wider perspective I believe this was an inconsiderate attitude. Don't jump in far far over your head, set yourself up to have a fun time, not epic. My 1.5 cents.

Blake, I think it's simply that there is always demand for long easy routes, especially with short approaches, regardless of quality. Most newer climbers I have met have a hard time understanding the idea of "stars" or how one route can be of higher quality than others. It takes experience to come to that perspective.

Ah I see there's been another page of discussion that has rendered my comments mostly irrelevant. I will leave them here as record of my impulsiveness.

Eric Fjellanger wrote: I think you guys that are advising her to climb an 18-pitch route when she has only ever climbed one pitch at a time are being irresponsible.

where did you get that OP is a woman..?

12 liters of water is CRAZY. bring 4-6.

Nick Giles wrote: I've heard you can link many of the pitches with a 70, does anyone know which pitches you can do this?

Thanks

We linked 1-2, 3-4, 7-8 and 10-11 with a 70 m rope.  I think we had 23 draws including 8-10 shoulder length slings, which are essential for managing rope drag. You could link additional pitches after 11 but with maybe a bit more broken terrain.

Chris Blatchley wrote: where did you get that OP is a woman..?

12 liters of water is CRAZY. bring 4-6.

I actually don't know where I got that idea. Did you assume she is a man?

I think you are probably ok giving it a shot. Even if you don't finish and have to rap it's still good practice. Just please let people pass.

For everyone else making the "slow party" argument, if you're competent and efficient you should know better than to climb Flyboys on a weekend. Save it for a week day, or better yet, climb it overnight so you aren't roasting in the sun all day. 

blakeherrington wrote: Having climbed a little on Goat Wall, including Prime Rib, I'm genuinely curious what redeeming value there is to this route apart from it containing the purported 18 pitches. (My question has nothing to do with difficulty. Routes like Dierdre or Solar slab or the 1st flatiron are both easy and awesome.)

• Average pitch quality based on other Goat Wall routes seems likely 1-2 stars (out of 4). Would even a quarter of the route's pitches be considered high quality if they were at a single pitch wall?
• The multiple move-the-belay spots are obviously a detraction from the quality and just add a bunch of time stacking, piling, sorting, and carrying ropes around on gravel ledges.
• Super hot, sunny, and dusty in an already very warm part of the state.
• Short, indistinct, forgettable pitches and generic features.
• Numerous huge ledges.
• Tops out below a road, providing no better views than you already saw while setting up the annoying car/bike shuttle. 
• Reaches no summit or spire.
• Crowded, especially with new climbers, and including parties rappelling the route.

As a thought experiment: If the belays had been bolted in such a way to create 50m-70m pitches, and it was then just another wandering and blocky low-quality 9 pitch route that covered the exact same terrain, what would the popularity be?

The route is way better than prime rib in my opinion. Multiple fun pitches. You can argue prime rib has one 9- move, and a bunch of dog pitches. Flyboys has quite a few pitches that make you think I think 12? that are 5.8 or harder. If you want the best route on the goat wall go do restless natives. Mostly 10a or harder with more of a big wall feel. Great sustained climbing.

That being said, I don't know if I'd do it again. Just because of the length and moderate climbing. I think it took us 5 hours up and 2.5 to simorap.

To the original poster. As long as you and your partner are confident belaying from above and trusting each others set ups without being able to see them, go for it.

PS don't rap. It's way too long and has lots of loose rock you can kick on people below

Hi everyone, thanks for advice. We decided to go regardless... Perhaps we should have done prime rib. It was an adventure! No injuries or sketchines, which was good. Unfortunately, I realized I'm afraid of heights.

Saturday:

We practiced setting up and belaying from above on the ground, then on a small 2-pitch climb. We ate burgers at the restaurant nearby. We camped for the night. I did not sleep that well; a bit nervous, excited, scared.

Sunday:

4:00AM Wake up, full moon. Take down tent. Eat slice of bread.

4:30AM drive to start of approach

5:30AM get to base of climb.

5:45AM While getting set up, my climbing partner accidently kicked our gallon jug of water down the scree. I could not safely grab it as it went passed, and it exploded and all the water was gone. No one was below. Fortunately, we still had 4.5 L of water for the 2 of us. (we originally intended on bringing 8.5 liters (down from 12)).

Pitch 1-6 uneventful, pack was heavy lol

8:30AM Pitch 7 (follow), I was wearing the haul bag following on the 5.9 and I did the climb very inefficiently

9:00AM Pitch 8 (lead), I was trying to grab the rope to clip a draw, when I looked between my legs. Between my sweaty thighs I saw the car upside down and very very small. This scared me, since we were quite high up and I now learned I was afraid of heights. I clipped the draw, but pondered my life decisions. There were two competing thoughts: stop being wimp, and 'why is ape so far off the ground'. The pitch was finished.

9:20 AM Pitch 9 (follow) attempt: My partner agreed to lead the rest since I didn't feel good about lead climbing after pitch 8. But he had some trouble on the first few bolts, and I decided I would likely not be able to climb it on top rope. Even though I was physically feeling good, I was not in the good mental state to continue. So we decided to rap.

9:30 AM - 11:00 AM rap from pitch 8. We had a 60 meter rope, so there's a bit of a scary walk on one rap. However, instead we belayed eachother across this section, to at least limit the slide to 30 ft down the scree. My partner was exceptionally good at rope handling, so it did not get tangled except once. It got a little caught on a bush about 20 ft off the deck, but he was able to get it unstuck by waving it around a lot. We got down to the bottom just as the sun got to the base of the climb.

11:00 - 11:40 AM approach of shame lol

11:40 - 12:30 swimming hole, eat, drink. We saw 3 snakes eating a dead fish, which scared my partner so he would not go in the water. They swam away when they saw us, so I figured I would go in. The cold water was great.

12:30 - 1PM food, retrieve bike from top, etc

1PM - 6PM drive home.
Then we drove home, safe, sound, and extremely tired  (even though we went halfway)

Observations:
Eat more than once slice of bread for breakfast
Do not wear flip flops on scree, it was quite slippery with lots of small rocks that move under your feet.
Don't drop the water.
I should not have worn jacket and sweatpants at this time of year, just useless weight.
There was no one else on the climb that day, although we saw someone halfway up prime rib.
Swimming hole was snake infested but otherwise good.

Blake, you did say you're "genuinely curious" so here's some genuine feedback. Not trying to get personal or criticize you - I don't even know you! - but I want to address your questions, many of which i honestly share, but the difference is I went and did the climb and can understand why others would want to do it. I know some of your exploits and I feel that by ripping on this climb with your loaded questions, you're punching way below your weight  It's not for guys like you, end of story, and knocking a new route that didn't retrobolt or crowd an existing route without climbing it seems judgmental. It's true that this climb can be done, fairly safely and quickly, by people who started in a gym a year ago and can barely lead 5-10a at said gym. In a selfish way that bothers me too. Like they didn't pay their dues, and here they are, perhaps thinking they are alpinists like you!

We also both know those same folks would be way over their head on a 5-5 trad Beckey route, risking injury to themselves and others. I guess I just feel like you should think about why you felt the need to knock the climb and, implicitly, the climbers who do it. If anything, be glad this climb takes people away from traditional lines.  

I've swung leads on moderate and popula trad lines like south face of prusik, sepentine arête on dragontail, west face of SEWSpire, etc and while this climb in no way "compares" to them, it was a super fun thing to do in under a 12 hour day, car to car, without a huge hike or commitment. I'll always prefer trad lines, but that doesn't mean I have to rip on Flyboys to point out that I prefer hard, steep lines with small belay ledges, ever-evolving views on non-hot not-dusty terrain that are not crowded. This climb lets people climb 2,000 feet for fun. For some people, it might be the culmination of their climbing career, a goal to work for, an experience to savor with a friend, the first step into multi pitch on a career that end up in trad territory. Is that not the redeeming value you suggest is lacking?  Is there more to life than steep thin aesthetic remote splitters? (Not a rhetorical question)

PS  - to the OP, I see you made it halfway on a weekday with only one other party around to "slow down," then bailed. You made some mistakes, owned them, got down safely, and maybe decided multi pitch isn't your bag. At least you tried. Maybe next summer you'll be back if you come to terms with heights.

Good job OP.  I bet you'll get it next time! You'll be amazed how quickly things move once you dial in your multipitch skills.  Additionally, you should never be taking that much water on a route - if it's that hot, then don't climb!

 The Matrix has some short 2-3 pitch climbs that would be good practice before getting on something longer.

Does anyone know where I can find info on these routes? I'm planning to do Flyboys in September and would like to get on some shorter multi-pitch climbs first to practice systems with my partner, but the only climbs listed on Mountain Project for the Matrix are single pitch.

the climbing store in mazama (the goat's beard) has some little pamphlet books for sale.  they also have a flyboys topo.  really cool folks and a nice little shop.