New and Experienced Climbers over 51

Sexy Grandma at JTree is a great route! Get on it!!

Lori Milas wrote:

...  I don't feel old.  I have no intention of being or acting old.

Good for you, age is just a number.   I'm Medicare eligible and climbing as hard as a lot of the young guns I climb with.  Even when I can no longer climb hard (for me) I will still enjoy a 5.6 just as much.  I like your attitude.  If you are ever out east let's climb.

Old lady H wrote: Lori, Lori, Lori. When are you going to admit to being so far down the grown up path, that you are now over the hill? Through the woods? Across the river?.....

Sweetie? That means the rules are all waaaayyyy back there. Way, WAY, back.

DO NOT LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER, lest you see those stupid "rules" creeping up behind you, like something not quite seen from Carlos Castenada days. Do not ask questions if you have no intention of abiding by the answer. Selective deafness should be applied, and, "Oh dear, I don't think I can do that today. Would next (week, month, year, decade) do?" Smile nicely, and ignore anyone/thing you wish, unless law enforcement is already involved. Don't ask permission. Only apologize if you actually need to. Otherwise, it's none of their business. That smile, again. It's okay to arch a brow, too. Let them worry, a bit. It sets a good example, IMO.

Three rules:
Be safe. Have fun. Be awesome.

Rule four: apply as you wish. Or not. ;-D

Best, Helen

I WISH law enforcement would be involved!  Most of the stuff I think of lately ought to be illegal.

I don't suppose anyone would be up for a real climbing getaway in September?  Depending upon the weather, I'll be camping at J Tree ... or cheap motel.  One way or another, I'll be there.  Now it would seem kind of wrong to go alone.    

wendy weiss wrote:

Erika, does standing on one foot while doing dishes or brushing your teeth mean without your hand or other body part leaning against the sink?

I know this might sound silly, but after my indoor bouldering sessions I always stand on one leg while putting my street shoes on and tying the laces   

Lori Milas wrote: ... I noticed it was part strength ...(can you up and over huge logs, boulders, etc), and part real balance...  

...Way back at the beginning of '50' thread, I think I confessed to some panic issues when off belay at the top of some crags.  My guide was concerned enough that we spent the last couple weeks testing this out.  It's been an obvious stumbling block to working on multi pitch...    

Lori I think being secure can have a lot to do with strength, esp in regards to stabilising muscles, both core and also hips and legs.

In regards to feeling secure on a belay, I always clip in to something.  I just don't want to be up that high and not be clipped in.  I think one can forget that one isn't clipped in and that can be dangerous.  I still get a little freaked out walking to an abseil if the path is very narrow, we ALWAYS have to be careful!

On Sunday I young kid plummeted 15 metres off a cliff face at the crag I was intending to climb at.  He was walking with his family and toppled over at a point where the path is very narrow and very close (like a foot) from the edge.  He survived but it was a tad concerning climbing later and seeing the helicopter winch him out.  Funny thing was, on that day I led a very easy trad climb (grade 13).  My mate didn't want to be bothered following to clean it so I decided to just abseil off and clean it.  Poor decision.  Even though there were bolts up the top, I didn't have enough gear (slings and biners) to set up a redundant anchor so just attached to one bolt via one sling (silly thing to do).  Then, abseiling down with an ATC and a prussic, I couldn't get a nut out and had no nut key.  Ended up just wrapping the rope around my leg three times so I could use two hands.  Feeling that the whole scenario was going to shit I (half) jokingly asked the guys if the helicopter was still about, as I might need it.  I got down safely of course but I really shouldn't have trusted just one sling.  I committed to always carrying a couple of long slings and a few locking biners, regardless.

I think knowing you're safe is important.  I really don't understand why one would be off belay and not clipped in to the anchor unless the belay ledge is really quite wide and you're walking off the route to an abseil or a walk off.  If you're intending to climb on, I feel you should be clipped in.

Water, I have started doubling my water capacity.  I don't know why but I get dehydrated faster than I did 5 years ago.  Slows me down, double water double weight, buy by 3 I am really glad I had the extra water.

Stick pin suffices for walking stick and balancing pole for crossing streams.  

Back packs, I took a look at the stitching on the side of my pack today, Kelty 80.  80L pack?  Wow, most of the time it is not full, sometimes it is.  Today was not a challenge for it, 1 rope, 2 bare harnesses, 2 ATC's some web, we were rapping Battle Creek Falls.  Nothing like a cool swing in a water fall on a hot day.  

Dallas R wrote: Water, I have started doubling my water capacity.  I don't know why but I get dehydrated faster than I did 5 years ago.  Slows me down, double water double weight, buy by 3 I am really glad I had the extra water.

Stick pin suffices for walking stick and balancing pole for crossing streams.  

Back packs, I took a look at the stitching on the side of my pack today, Kelty 80.  80L pack?  Wow, most of the time it is not full, sometimes it is.  Today was not a challenge for it, 1 rope, 2 bare harnesses, 2 ATC's some web, we were rapping Battle Creek Falls.  Nothing like a cool swing in a water fall on a hot day.  

Bloody HELL man look at the size of your guns!  Is that all water??   

Carl Schneider wrote:

Lori I think being secure can have a lot to do with strength, esp in regards to stabilising muscles, both core and also hips and legs.

In regards to feeling secure on a belay, I always clip in to something.  I just don't want to be up that high and not be clipped in.  I think one can forget that one isn't clipped in and that can be dangerous.  I still get a little freaked out walking to an abseil if the path is very narrow, we ALWAYS have to be careful!

On Sunday I young kid plummeted 15 metres off a cliff face at the crag I was intending to climb at.  He was walking with his family and toppled over at a point where the path is very narrow and very close (like a foot) from the edge.  He survived but it was a tad concerning climbing later and seeing the helicopter winch him out.  Funny thing was, on that day I led a very easy trad climb (grade 13).  My mate didn't want to be bothered following to clean it so I decided to just abseil off and clean it.  Poor decision.  Even though there were bolts up the top, I didn't have enough gear (slings and biners) to set up a redundant anchor so just attached to one bolt via one sling (silly thing to do).  Then, abseiling down with an ATC and a prussic, I couldn't get a nut out and had no nut key.  Ended up just wrapping the rope around my leg three times so I could use two hands.  Feeling that the whole scenario was going to shit I (half) jokingly asked the guys if the helicopter was still about, as I might need it.  I got down safely of course but I really shouldn't have trusted just one sling.  I committed to always carrying a couple of long slings and a few locking biners, regardless.

I think knowing you're safe is important.  I really don't understand why one would be off belay and not clipped in to the anchor unless the belay ledge is really quite wide and you're walking off the route to an abseil or a walk off.  If you're intending to climb on, I feel you should be clipped in.

Carl. I think you are absolutely right.  It's all theoretical for me right now... but clipping in seems like one good measure for feeling safe and strong.  Thanks for adding this in (and I'm glad you were safe on your last descent!).  I was looking at some pictures I took of us walking off a fairly high and steep rock... and I recall feeling just fine.  The path was wide enough to sail down.  I think this discussion is helping to hone in on what the issues are, and how to solve them.  And... 'get used to exposure'.  Working on it.   

Dallas R wrote: Water, I have started doubling my water capacity.  I don't know why but I get dehydrated faster than I did 5 years ago.  Slows me down, double water double weight, buy by 3 I am really glad I had the extra water.

Stick pin suffices for walking stick and balancing pole for crossing streams.  

Back packs, I took a look at the stitching on the side of my pack today, Kelty 80.  80L pack?  Wow, most of the time it is not full, sometimes it is.  Today was not a challenge for it, 1 rope, 2 bare harnesses, 2 ATC's some web, we were rapping Battle Creek Falls.  Nothing like a cool swing in a water fall on a hot day.  

YES!  Water!  You are so right about needing more... (of course you had plenty right there.) 

rgold, thank you for recommending the crack book. It's here, I'm working through the chapters.  Now to take it out and start to practice the info.  There is a large bouldering area very close to me with some vertical cracks--and some young kids who owe me a spot.  Maybe I can work some there.  And one of our gyms has plenty of crack-like formations to work on.  My only experience there was kind of strange... the concrete 'cracks' felt unforgiving, even dangerous.  But maybe it was just my inexperience.  I know our crags at Donner have good crack systems.

We're not going to have another debacle on Double Cross in the fall.    

The latest studies on tart cherry juice for pain, muscle fatigue, inflammation are very convincing.  In one study, it greatly improved run time for runners.  "There is some evidence that drinking between 10 to 12 ounces (1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups) of tart cherry juice twice daily (providing about 80 mg anthocyanins) may reduce muscle damage and pain during and after exercise (Kuehl, J Int Soc Sports Nutr 2010; Connolly, Br J Sports Med 2006; Howatson, Scand J Med Sci Sports 2010). In one study, a tart cherry juice extract providing about 273 mg of anthocyanins (CherryActive®) taken twice daily was found to significantly improve recovery of muscle strength following an intensive strength training exercise (Botwell, Med Sci Sports Exerc 2011."  

For some athletes, tart cherry juice has replaced NSAIDS.   

Rather than drinking bottles of cherry juice every day, there is a concentrate--2 Tbsp in water once or twice a day.  https://www.amazon.com/Country-Spoon-Montmorency-Cherry-Concentrate/dp/B0032JKWGI?th=1

Carl... .you can add this to your tea.     BTW... I love your tea. 

 

Lori Milas wrote: The latest studies on tart cherry juice for pain, muscle fatigue, inflammation are very convincing.  In one study, it greatly improved run time for runners.  "There is some evidence that drinking between 10 to 12 ounces (1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups) of tart cherry juice twice daily (providing about 80 mg anthocyanins) may reduce muscle damage and pain during and after exercise (Kuehl, J Int Soc Sports Nutr 2010; Connolly, Br J Sports Med 2006; Howatson, Scand J Med Sci Sports 2010). In one study, a tart cherry juice extract providing about 273 mg of anthocyanins (CherryActive®) taken twice daily was found to significantly improve recovery of muscle strength following an intensive strength training exercise (Botwell, Med Sci Sports Exerc 2011."  

For some athletes, tart cherry juice has replaced NSAIDS.  

Rather than drinking bottles of cherry juice every day, there is a concentrate--2 Tbsp in water once or twice a day.  https://www.amazon.com/Country-Spoon-Montmorency-Cherry-Concentrate/dp/B0032JKWGI?th=1

Carl... .you can add this to your tea.     BTW... I love your tea.

Or mustard........2 packets......... ;) 

I've been brushing my teeth on one foot all week, I plan on snapping the throttle open on the 450 Saturday morning to see if my equilibrium notices the difference when my brain sloshes to the back of my skull when I pull 2 Gs.......It (my equilibrium) normally goes "Ooohhhh Weee!!!! I'll post my findings if anything changes here Sunday am...... ;)

Also @ Richard, Data for the study, those little hairs in my inner ears are all broke off already....no noticeable changes in balance due to aging thus far....... ;) 

Lori Milas wrote:

  And... 'get used to exposure'.  Working on it.   

I call that feeling getting the woolieboogers.  I talked with a friend who is a certified guide and is the head of a phys ed department for a college about it.  He made a comment that has stuck with me, "Everyone should have a reasonable concern for heights."  If you are climbing with someone who does not have respect for heights you need to watch them closely, they will likely do something dangerous. 

As for me, you will never find me not tied to something whenever I am aloft.  I have fallen down a lot in my life, it hurts.  I have given up falling down as a bad habit. 

My PAS is great for a quick hook up when arriving at an anchor, but clove hitching the rope allows me to extend out and make more room or move around and is stronger than a PAS.    

John Barritt wrote:

Or mustard........2 packets......... ;) 

I've been brushing my teeth on one foot all week, I plan on snapping the throttle open on the 450 Saturday morning to see if my equilibrium notices the difference when my brain sloshes to the back of my skull when I pull 2 Gs.......It (my equilibrium) normally goes "Ooohhhh Weee!!!! I'll post my findings if anything changes here Sunday am...... ;)

Also @ Richard, Data for the study, those little hairs in my inner ears are all broke off already....no noticeable changes in balance due to aging thus far....... ;) 

We will require pictures to verify.   

Dallas R wrote:

I call that feeling getting the woolieboogers.  I talked with a friend who is a certified guide and is the head of a phys ed department for a college about it.  He made a comment that has stuck with me, "Everyone should have a reasonable concern for heights."  If you are climbing with someone who does not have respect for heights you need to watch them closely, they will likely do something dangerous. 

As for me, you will never find me not tied to something whenever I am aloft.  I have fallen down a lot in my life, it hurts.  I have given up falling down as a bad habit. 

My PAS is great for a quick hook up when arriving at an anchor, but clove hitching the rope allows me to extend out and make more room or move around and is stronger than a PAS.    

I got the impression Lori was talking more about walking around on the top of formations than actually "being off" at belays. I know a lot of places (like JT) that after topping out you spool up and walk off or walk to rappel anchors or just across ledges etc. to get down. I was assuming this was where she was struggling.

One day I took a guy that had been climbing with me for about a year at the WMWR that was strong at Okie 5.10 out to Quartz for his first time. Typical M.O. was to free solo the snake's head, 5.5, drop a rap line on the headwall for the next day's climbing to expedite getting down fast between routes.

Upon arriving Friday afternoon someone had beaten us to it. So we decide to go up anyway, watch the sunset and rap down at dusk.

We headed up the snake's head (you can almost stand up and walk on it) Halfway up the narrow exposed route he freaks and can't move.  So I finish the climb, rap down, get a rope, free-solo back up there, tie him in, climb to the top and give him a belay.

The real cure for exposure is being exposed.

rgold wrote: ...

30 L is too big for a followers pack on a day rock climb---20L or less is good enough unless one needs a lot of stuff for bad weather---to be but there are various packs in the 30 L category that are so light and carry so well half-empty that I don't always scale down to my 18L pack.  A bigger half-empty pack carries better than a small pack stuffed until it is a hard ball on your back.
....

30L pack with 70 oz of water, wife's approach shoes - I'm wearing mine;) - a few extra clothes.  It was a bit of a struggle for 53 year old me exiting that slot with it!  Flyboys in WA.

I do not retract my comment   

rgold wrote: I do not retract my comment   

Tell us of the ever thinning skin - All about Climbing Gloves?

Yeah, the backs of my hands bleed if I even think about hand-jamming; in my opinion crack gloves are the way to go for the older set.  I have the Ocun's ocun.com/en/products/access… and the OR's outdoorresearch.com/us/en/s…  (both have been improved since I bought mine).  The OR's are sleeker and are good for fine-grained rock.  If the inside of the crack has nubbins or crystals, the Ocun's give a little more padding (at the expense of making your hand a touch bigger, which can be good or bad).  Both are easy to clip to the harness and can be put on and taken off when needed, so are far better than taping for routes that aren't pure crack climbs.  Neither protect the thumb or the fingers above the knuckles. YMMV as usual.

Just sharing this great basic article about navigation and mapping that I found today.

​https://www.outsideonline.com/2229756/your-navigation-outdated-heres-how-fix-it​​​