Pro climbers and PEDs, what are your thoughts?

Do you care? Does it matter? Would you feel like it somehow lessened an accomplishment?

Say for example tomorrow it comes out that some pro climber had been habitually cycling steroids. They've been climbing some of the hardest routes in the world, even putting up some real challenge pieces.

Would it seem like cheating? Or does it even matter?

Also, I'm not in any way inferring anything about any climber. This is purely hypothetical.

For me.... I'm not sure I care. I enjoy watching powerlifters, and CrossFit games  and other professional sports and they are rife with PED use. Some openly, others a little less so, but it's there. It's still impressive. It's not like it removes the skill level. It just shortens the healing cycle and promotes muscle growth. It's neat to see what a human body can do. 

Would someone clarify something for me?

I always thought PEDs don't affect tendons as much as muscles. Tendons don't get the massive gains muscles do, which leads to injuries because muscles get stronger than their tendons can support.

So wouldn't PEDs for climbing lead to more injury and be counterintuitive?

signed,
someone that knows very little about roids

Lardtazium wrote: Would someone clarify something for me?

I always thought PEDs don't affect tendons as much as muscles. Tendons don't get the massive gains muscles do, which leads to injuries because muscles get stronger than their tendons can support.

So wouldn't PEDs for climbing lead to more injury and be counterintuitive?

signed,
someone that knows very little about roids

I don't know that much. I tried to Google it, but honestly the language used is very dense and I don't feel like trying to learn the lingo. Sorry!

Remember when Chris Sharma failed a drug test?

Yeah, Chris Sharma doesn't remember that one, either.

Hobbiest climbers (or hobby athletes in general) are taking PED drugs up the wazoo.

Climb on!

I'm all for it

How do we define PEDs?  Steroids and HGH, sure.  But what about amphetamines, or acclimitization drugs?  There are all sorts of drugs out there for improving the skills that climbers employ, not just ones that increase strength.

Personally, I do care if people use drugs, I just want them to be up front about it.  Competitions should be clean, imho, because that's an interesting vector for seeing what's possible, but I don't care that Hermann Buhl made his solo ascent of Nanga Parbat using amphetamines and coca leaves.  If any current professional climber is using HGH, I'm still impressed with the achievements they've made, especially since it's never really done at the expense of another climber.

Humans using chemicals to minimize deleterious effects of altitude or to strengthen their bodies is like most other tools they employ already for safety and ease-of-use.  What is pure, anymore?  We use mechanical jumars and efficient systems on multi-pitch climbs, helicopter rides to base camp, fixed ropes on routes, etc. and these in no way dimininsh the accomplishments for the personal and professional.  Just don't lead me on to believe that you completed VII,M8,WI6 on your own courage alone, or that you sent 5.16 based solely on your strength-training routine.  If you use something, anything, in your ascent (tools, drugs, techniques, etc.), I'd like to know about it.  It's an important part of the narrative.

The reason why pro athletes shouldn't use Roids or other drugs is because their incentive is so powerful to abuse them.

Chronic use of them leads to all kinds of serious health problems and addiction not just injuries.

See Lance Armstrong's testicular cancer or Pete Rose's meth rages.

Long Ranger wrote: Remember when Chris Sharma failed a drug test?

Yeah, Chris Sharma doesn't remember that one, either.

Hobbiest climbers (or hobby athletes in general) are taking PED drugs up the wazoo.

Climb on!

It was for Cannabis.

Cannabis is the most highly used PED. Most climbers smoke to reduce the weight and float up the mountain... even if it means you are laying on the ground at the sick boulder problem.

Ryan Bond wrote: Do you care? Does it matter? Would you feel like it somehow lessened an accomplishment?

Say for example tomorrow it comes out that some pro climber had been habitually cycling steroids. They've been climbing some of the hardest routes in the world, even putting up some real challenge pieces.

Would it seem like cheating? Or does it even matter?

Also, I'm not in any way inferring anything about any climber. This is purely hypothetical.

For me.... I'm not sure I care. I enjoy watching powerlifters, and CrossFit games  and other professional sports and they are rife with PED use. Some openly, others a little less so, but it's there. It's still impressive. It's not like it removes the skill level. It just shortens the healing cycle and promotes muscle growth. It's neat to see what a human body can do. 

Maybe you don't care, but let's say that you were a pro power lifter/crossfitter/climber and you weren't too psyched to get on the dope? Would you care then?  There were plenty of talented junior/espoir cyclists who either dropped out of the sport or, sometimes with tragic consequences, started to play with the hot sauce. They were essentially robbed of their careers or their lives/health because they were unable to compete off the dope. 

Ryan Bond wrote: Do you care?

Nope.  This ain't sportsball.  

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote: 
See Lance Armstrong's testicular cancer or Pete Rose's meth rages.

...or the size of Barry Bond's head...

K. Le Douche wrote:

...or the size of Barry Bond's head...

Which one?

Yes, you can take supplements to help with recovery time and strength of tendons. Building strength is breaking down then building up, and minimizing the recovery time allows for more cycles of such. People may not want to run SARMs for climbing, but plenty of supplements and medications will enhance the climbers ability beyond their natural ability.
The ethics of it are product based. If the product is your personal satisfaction, then so be it and enjoy the many climbs you can now do that you couldn't do natural. If the product is endorsements and competition success and accolades you are just giving the viewers and sponsors a better experience, at the cost of an arms race in the sport that will negate the benefit you got individually as most others will follow suit. For hobbyists, the benefits are self explanatory. We can't pretend for a moment that climbers have not been using PEDs (cocaine, pain relievers, HGH, beta blockers, albuterol, etc...) to a benefit whether they know it or not.

Peds can be addictive and sometimes dangerous (speed and friends are a fun one). A lot of the ones used by climbers are also snake oil. I cant be the only one with buddies climbing low 12s with "supplement" buying hobbies?

ibuprofen is aid.

Long Ranger wrote: Peds can be addictive and sometimes dangerous (speed and friends are a fun one). A lot of the ones used by climbers are also snake oil. I cant be the only one with buddies climbing low 12s with "supplement" buying hobbies?

Bro you NEED to take this pre workout! It makes a huge difference.

Ted Pinson wrote: ibuprofen is aids.

fyp, anti inflammatories kill your gains. The inflammatory response is used by our bodies to stimulate/facilitate tissue growth and repair.

Jer wrote:

fyp, anti inflammatories kill your gains. The inflammatory response is used by our bodies to stimulate/facilitate tissue growth and repair.

Yeah, but climbing on ibuprofen is God mode, lol.

For me the use of PED's is antithetical to why I climb, which is to explore and expand upon my personal potential.  To me taking PED's is an appeal to something outside of myself, and therefore anything I accomplished on them would feel tainted to me.  That goes for stereroids, and it especially goes for any kind of amphetamines or speed of any kind.  Because of this, I don't knowingly celebrate the accomplishments of peoiple who use PED's to attain their goals.  I think all of those people owe themselves a deep look inward to answer the question of why they feel the need to use PED's.  Fwiw, I don't consider nutritional supplementation to be a PED any more than I consider the car that gets me to the crag to be a PED, or the job which facilitates the freedom to go climbing a PED.  

I also genuinely worry about health concerns of using PED's of all kinds, both long and short term: just because you decrease your recovery time or overcome your natural protective mechanisms which limit muscular recruitment, does not mean that you have the other necessary pieces of the puzzle such as the metabolism to recover, the ability to remove toxins from workouts, or the tendons to take the increased force.  Therefore, IMO, taking PED's is just a bad thing waiting to happen.  Everything is an interconnected system, and to me it makes little rational sense to upset that balance.  The limits we all operate under exist for a reason. 

I can't imagine many pro climbers use PEDs, I doubt it helps much at the highest level. Local crushers and weekend warriors absolutely.