Moccasym sizing

So I'm thinking about getting a pair for crack climbing shoes and want them to be sized very comfortably.  I have Butora Alturas but would like something that is quick and easy on/off for easier climbs that are mostly just regular foot jams.  I went by REI today to try on a few to find the right size and order online but I would like to know what to expect as far as stretching goes.  The only 2 sizes I found close to my size were EU 41 and 42 (no 41.5 in stock at that one).  The 41 fit with a pretty good amount of toe curl while the 42 were just ever so slightly making my big toe curl.  Thoughts on which size I should go for?

Neither - they're both too small. You want something where your foot lies flat in the shoe. Not only does a you're curl fucking hurt like hell to jam, but it means you don't have any extra rubber at the end of your toebox to stick in a crack when it thins out.

Mark Roberts wrote: Neither - they're both too small. You want something where your foot lies flat in the shoe. Not only does a you're curl fucking hurt like hell to jam, but it means you don't have any extra rubber at the end of your toebox to stick in a crack when it thins out.

Yes I know that any toe curl will hurt with jams....the point of this whole thread was to find out if that would go away with break-in stretch or not.  Do you have any experience with how much moccs stretch? 

They stretch (or used to, at least). I’d size em down 1/2 to full size as I recall. Not in EU sizes though. Five Ten went to euro sizing?

If it’s REI, just return them for a different size if it doesn’t work out.

As far as a little toe curl, I don’t find that hinders crack climbing too much. Maybe that’s just me though. If you’re completely knuckled up like a geisha, that’s a different tale.

Moccs are a great shoe, I always enjoyed breaking em in and the whole process but it takes a little foot conditioning on the climber’s part.

• La Sportiva shoes in 41, Evolv in 42.5, Five Ten in 41. I bought the Mocs in 41.5 because of a screaming deal. They were fitted, but no curl. I would say half way to their resole point and they haven't stretched noticeably. Comfy, soft, crack shoe. I'm guessing the climbers who get them stretching 1-2 sizes do so because they size them way small, necessitating the stretch. Mine didn't stretch because my foot wasn't forcing the expansion. They don't feel secure for overhangs/hard heel hooking, but perfect for the intended use. So...42

Colonel Mustard wrote: They stretch (or used to, at least). I’d size em down 1/2 to full size as I recall. 

Second this.  Get them slightly snug (no curl) and then wait for them to stretch into your perfect crack shoe.  Every time you slip them on its like getting a hug from an old friend.

I started with slight toe curl in my moccs, they've stretched just over half a size.  Perfect snug fit for slab, but still a bit too small for comfort in a crack.  I'll be sizing up 1/2 for my next pair.

Christopher Smith wrote:

Yes I know that any toe curl will hurt with jams....the point of this whole thread was to find out if that would go away with break-in stretch or not.  Do you have any experience with how much moccs stretch? 

I've been crack climbing in Moccs for ten years. If you have a slight toecurl then yes, they will stretch and flatten out. However, they'll likely still be a little too small.

People size Moccs larger for crack climbing because it reduces pain when your foot isn't already scrunched, and because slightly baggy Moccs give you a little extra rubber to play with in thinner jams. I'd recommend something closer to your street shoe size, the stretch won't be an issue for the routes on your ticklist.

But don't take my word for it. stephdavis.co/blog/foot-jams/

I get them as small as I can get on my feet (10.5 street/8.5 Mocc). Break them in at home walking around after wetting the upper a little, dry them thoroughly,  slather the upper in Seam Grip, send mad gnar in shoes that will hold up for 300-500 outdoor pitches and weekday gym use. If you need hardcore perfect finger shoes, size up 1/2 size. Doing a couple long sessions in them after the initial break in, and you can actually climb without hella pain, will help them stretch to the point where they will be comfortable on off fingers to offwidth.
Other shoe sizes
Stonelands 10.5 (the perfect crack shoe)
anasazi lace 9.5 (tight edging shoes)
Mythos 9 (floppy)
Aspect 10 (tight but comfy)

John Clark wrote: I get them as small as I can get on my feet (10.5 street/8.5 Mocc). 

How is that even possible? My Moccs are street size, same 10.5 as you. No way I could get 8.5's on. Not sure I could even get 9.5's on. (Not sure what the point would be either, no real sense in fitting flat-lasted shoes with a curled big toe.)

Noah Yetter wrote:

How is that even possible? My Moccs are street size, same 10.5 as you. No way I could get 8.5's on. Not sure I could even get 9.5's on. (Not sure what the point would be either, no real sense in fitting flat-lasted shoes with a curled big toe.)

Plastic bags and biceps. I like to have some edging power for yosemite granite in addition to the jamming comfort of a mocc, so I sacrifice a little of the finger crack performance of a looser shoe. After 2-4 weeks of hard use though, they feel comfy for any jamming, but still edge well enough to send 5.11-5.12 granite that has face feet.

John Clark wrote:

Plastic bags and biceps. I like to have some edging power for yosemite granite in addition to the jamming comfort of a mocc, so I sacrifice a little of the finger crack performance of a looser shoe. After 2-4 weeks of hard use though, they feel comfy for any jamming, but still edge well enough to send 5.11-5.12 granite that has face feet.

How can they be comfortable to jam in if your toes are curled? I'm not sure I can even imagine the agony of jamming in 2-sizes-down Moccs.

Noah Yetter wrote:

How can they be comfortable to jam in if your toes are curled? I'm not sure I can even imagine the agony of jamming in 2-sizes-down Moccs.

Moccs stretch like hell. And yeah, breaking them in hurts like the dickens for probably the first 10-20 hours of use. I boulder, then sport climb, then by that point they are usually ready for trad. maybe I have a high pain tolerance or nerve damage, but I can rock those for probably 10-15 pitches before I want to take them off.

I saw posts around but I can confirm Mocs sizing has changed.

Just bought new and they are 0.5-1 full size smaller than they used to be. See table with measures and pics below.

Pair 1 - 2010 - "Size US 8.5" - Length 26.5cms (well used)
Pair 2 - 2014 - "Size US 8" - Length 25.9 cms (well used)
Pair 3 - 2019 - "Size US 8.5" - Length 25.3 (Brand new)

[I don't think the mocs rubber stretches, just the leather does... but could be wrong, in any case I am positive they wouldnt stretch so much as to account for the differences above)

I would NOT use your old mocs as a reference for buying your news.

2014 8 vs 2019 8.5

2010 8.5 vs 2019 8.5

Funny, cause I have moccs from 12 years ago that fit just like a glove.