Extreme Gardening Questions

Whats your technique for cleaning those dirt filled cracks? While I wish I lived in a clean rock paradise... that is not the case here. 

I've been recently using a weeder / nut tool and then doing some brushing after that. Top to bottom. A recent trip to Index introduced me to the concept of people using leaf blowers. Anyone have good recommendations backpack vs handheld?  

John Wilder wrote: Google the Squamish climbers forum. They have a recommended kit for cleaning and development 

Don't see a recommended kit anywhere. A lot of great info about some climbs... and now my desire to get back to the Canadian promised land is rising

I've been using leaf blowers for about 10 years and it's the way to go really unless the rock is very clean or the cleaning limited to a discrete area.

Slightly heavy to carry around and there are considerations to manage; petrol vs climbing gear and not dropping the blower but if I'm bolting a new wall then I'll typically go ahead and drill and glue everything first, then do a complete sweep of the wall with a blower after. Much faster than working route by route.

Leaf blowers do nothing for dirt in cracks in rainy areas where the roots infest the dirt. One might as well use a whisk broom.

Look up the serrated kama tool. Some sites might call it a rice-reaping tool or a serrated scyth. It looks like a strange saw, but cuts through root-infested dirt and moss like nothing else. Daiso down here in WA sells it for $1.50, but one should reinforce it. I have a picture of it on my personal page.

A notched ice axe works well too, but doesn't cut the roots and doesn't slide into as thin a crack. A hammer with a large-radius claw is also good for the wider cracks.

Also see
https://gripped.com/articles/the-first-rule-of-dig-club/ 
for general suggestions. 

I disagree with Jon's assertion above. The Leafblower is THE tool for scrubbing in the coastal rainforest of the BC and the US PNW. Many developers here in Squamish use them. I have a Stihl BR 600 backpack blower and combined with a sidewalk crack scraper/ old mountaineering ice ax, it is most efficient means to remove and move downward large masses of soil from cracks and ledge systems. I take the crack scraping tool (Home Depot sells a Fisckers version- I get mine from Lee Valley tools) or a custom crack tool I fashioned from one half of a broken set of pruning loppers, run it down the crack to cut the fine roots and loosen the soil and then blow the dirt out with the leafblower. The residual roots can then be easily removed by hand. For Salal mats on ledges I will use a mattock to chop the roots and loosen the dirt, and then leaf blower to blow the mats apart and make it easy to pull the mats up. The leaf blower will also rip and remove large moss mats from several feet away especially in dry conditions. It will also just blow remove loose flakes and rocks up to fist size down slope. At the end of  each cleaning session I will use the blower to push all the dirt I just created to the base of cliff. This usually takes about 20 min of time and prevents me from cleaning the same dirt over and over again. It is also useful annual route maintainence to prevent leaves and needles which accumulate over winter from becoming soil. The best tool ever invented IMO.

Something about taking a leaf blower out in the wilderness doesn't seem right to me. I use felco pruners, a sturdy stick and a whisk broom. Miluwakee does make some decent handheld battery powered blowers which are light. For landscape work I prefer Stihl tools. 

Chris Small wrote: I disagree with Jon's assertion above. The Leafblower is THE tool for scrubbing in the coastal rainforest of the BC and the US PNW. Many developers here in Squamish use them. I have a Stihl BR 600 backpack blower and combined with a sidewalk crack scraper/ old mountaineering ice ax, it is most efficient means to remove and move downward large masses of soil from cracks and ledge systems. I take the crack scraping tool (Home Depot sells a Fisckers version- I get mine from Lee Valley tools) or a custom crack tool I fashioned from one half of a broken set of pruning loppers, run it down the crack to cut the fine roots and loosen the soil and then blow the dirt out with the leafblower. The residual roots can then be easily removed by hand. For Salal mats on ledges I will use a mattock to chop the roots and loosen the dirt, and then leaf blower to blow the mats apart and make it easy to pull the mats up. The leaf blower will also rip and remove large moss mats from several feet away especially in dry conditions. It will also just blow remove loose flakes and rocks up to fist size down slope. At the end of  each cleaning session I will use the blower to push all the dirt I just created to the base of cliff. This usually takes about 20 min of time and prevents me from cleaning the same dirt over and over again. It is also useful annual route maintainence to prevent leaves and needles which accumulate over winter from becoming soil. The best tool ever invented IMO.

Yup, second that.

The blower is there to clear away LOOSE debris eg soil, dust, rock fragments. Any crack with soil inside (roots or no roots) will require 'digging' to free it first. Whilst not perhaps related to the OP's question, they are essential for cleaning routes when bolting in caves that can have dust everywhere.

Handy for clearing paths to the crag too   

I've seen folks use a leafblower after first cutting out the roots and most of the dirt. And I've used one for that, but the point is that one first has to cut out the vegetation that is strongly holding the dirt in place. (In many cases, VERY strongly held in place.) This sounded like the issue that the OP was asking about.

And once that is done, one can use a leafblower if one doesn't mind making noise and carrying a bulky object. But many folks don't care for the noise. And one can also just use a whisk broom or wait for the wind and rain that is soon to come. Even the two respondents above acknowledged the need to first scrape and cut. (Try cutting through a 1" root with a leafblower, and you'll be up there for some time.)

Dan Knisell wrote: Something about taking a leaf blower out in the wilderness doesn't seem right to me. I use felco pruners, a sturdy stick and a whisk broom. Miluwakee does make some decent handheld battery powered blowers which are light. For landscape work I prefer Stihl tools. 

You obviously have not been to Squamish yet. No one would say it is wilderness. Suburban climbing at its finest. 

Why is this question in the Fixed Hardware forum?

Gunkiemike wrote: Why is this question in the Fixed Hardware forum?

That's a good question. On the other hand, what forum would be better?

I suppose "Community Forum" might have worked, but I probably would have put the question here as well, given that both gardening and fixed hardware are both closely related to new-route development.

This cleaned up nicely I started 3,years ago.

& just yesterday A sapling that I'd planned to leave needed to go, it had taken to leaning in towards the main corner.to take advantage of the increase in light; the reflection from the rock, now cleaned of moss & gunk,reveling the white-ish rock

Estwing Geologists Rock Hammer.

You need a hammer anyways, nice for prying out loose rock, it even hand drills great and nothing nukes hummocks out of cracks any better.

https://www.amazon.com/Estwing-Rock-Pick-Geological-Reduction/dp/B0002OVCMO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1531504948&sr=8-2&keywords=estwing+rock+hammer+22+oz

We´ve used one of these for some stubborn loose rock............

Chris Small wrote:

You obviously have not been to Squamish yet. No one would say it is wilderness. Suburban climbing at its finest. 

No I haven’t but I plan on a visit sometime in the future while visiting family in Renton, WA.  I also just clean boulder problems so a blower isn’t really necessary. Seriously though Milwaukee’s battery powered blowers are super light weight and fairly strong for the size. The battery is where all the weight is and it’s a plus if you own any other Milwaukee tools. They won’t compare to any gas powered backpack style blower though. 

The Black and Decker cheapo has worked great for me. It gives me enough juice to clean a fair bit of rock and is light enough  I just carry it in.

I've used gas blowers on a rope. They work really well, but its super loud and you get covered in fumes.

Jon Nelson wrote: That's a good question. On the other hand, what forum would be better?

I suppose "Community Forum" might have worked, but I probably would have put the question here as well, given that both gardening and fixed hardware are both closely related to new-route development.

Why not General? Or Sport Climbing? 

Not that I'm losing sleep over this.

Wow! A lot of great suggestions here.

Thanks everyone. Went ahead and got a leaf blower. Didn't get a backpack version though... That is a good tip about waiting for the dirt to dry.

Felt like more developers post on this forum then anywhere else, and if I had posted in the general forum I'd probably get a bunch more of the people posting off topic. I mean... using a leaf blower for climbing related tasks is a pretty niche thing.

The area in question has a lot of beautiful granite, but the Alders have pretty firmly entrenched themselves in the cracks. It will be a bit of work and any way to save a couple hours is good.

Dan Knisell wrote: Something about taking a leaf blower out in the wilderness doesn't seem right to me. I use felco pruners, a sturdy stick and a whisk broom. Miluwakee does make some decent handheld battery powered blowers which are light. For landscape work I prefer Stihl tools. 

The thing about the wilderness up here is that it grows back.... really fast. The ~100 inches of rain per year probably has something to do with that.

I've got a similar question to follow up on Dylan's point: Any advice for stymieing regrowth? I've got thorn bushes and fig trees coming back with a vengeance in the spring. I keep cutting them back, but can't get the roots out because they've woven themselves into the pores of the rock. It's Adriatic limestone and the plants seem to thrive on these vertical walls. Any tips?

Josh Cook wrote: I've got a similar question to follow up on Dylan's point: Any advice for stymieing regrowth? I've got thorn bushes and fig trees coming back with a vengeance in the spring. I keep cutting them back, but can't get the roots out because they've woven themselves into the pores of the rock. It's Adriatic limestone and the plants seem to thrive on these vertical walls. Any tips?

Glyphosate on the stumps when freshly cut.