Question regarding shoe concept (gym, outdoor and multi pitch)

Hi everyone,

I've been around in this forum for a good amount of time and got a lot of great information out of that so I decided to join up. Just a few quick words, I've been climbing for about 9 months now, mostly in the gym but started multipitch climbing this spring and I'm currently trying to get as much experience on actual rock as possible to expand my limit for alpine climbing. I'm being quite ambitious about this because climbing has become my great passion REALLY fast.

So I'm currently a bit confused about what shoes to get for that purpose. I currently climb in Katana Laces which I really love so far. They fit great (went one size down from street shoe size) and I always feel secure when climbing in them.
I also got a paar of Mythos (1,5 sizes down from street shoe size) which were snug and felt great at first but after putting them through quite some multipitch adventures they stretched too much for me to actually feel safe with them when I tried to do some more challenging vertical climbing. I originally planned to use those for outdoor sports climbing as well but I think I'm not gonna use them much more than for real easy alpine routes or slab climbing in the future.

Now my question is what would you guys recommend concept wise having said all that?
I kinda think I have to get another multi pitch shoe for more vertical and demanding routes, I got my eyes on the TC Pro and Anasazi Pink (the KL would work for short multi pitch routes but definitely not for all day action). Also I thought about making the Katana my primary shoe for outdoor sport climbing and getting another gym shoe (thought about Vapor V, Futura, Genius depending on which one fits best). 
How are you doing this? Do you use seperate gym and crag climbing shoes? Am I thinking too complicated here and should just take my trusted gym climbing shoes outdoors and vice versa? It may really sound like a stupid question but I am quite confused in this regard and would really appreciate your advice.
I'm going to mainly climb limestone, granite and sometimes porphyr.

Thanks so much and see you around,

Moe

 Do you use seperate gym and crag climbing shoes? 

not really. Only because i stuffed one pair of shoes in a bag I use for the gym.

 Am I thinking too complicated here and should just take my trusted gym climbing shoes outdoors and vice versa? 

Yes. and Yes. Oddly I did my hardest send on shoes that I bought as a cheap pair for the gym.

sounds like you are climbing a bunch. Which is awesome. You'll probably figure out what you like best soon for different situations.

I think you are on the right track. Most 'gym' shoes also work just fine at the crag for single pitch, but when you start to do longer adventures you want something more comfortable that you can leave on for hours. The right blend of comfort vs. performance and which shoe to wear is personal preference. I have been ok with Mythos, but they are horrible at edging. For slabs and easy 5.8 cracks they have been fine.

It’s nice to have extra shoes with some overlapping function because inevitably you will need a resole right in the middle of your outdoor climbing season (for me that is year round).
I use an old pair of Mythos for gym cracks because they tear the hell out of them.
I have a new pair of Mythos for easy trad/ long days.
A pair of Moccasyms for harder, thinner cracks.
A pair of velcro Boreals that aren’t painful for gym sport climbing.
A pair of velcro Katanas for sport climbing outside.
And a new pair of Laceup Katakis that I bought in Bishop last week because my Katanas are being resoled.
Six. Not too many!

Here is how I do it:

I use three types of shoes:  
1) Anasazi slipper: these are for gym use only; I buy them tight, and they stretch. I don’t need an expensive shoe in the gym. 
2) TC pro: these are expensive, and I use them outdoors at cragswhen they are new. They start out as crag shoes, and when they stretch so that I can put a sock in them for warmth and comfortably walk in them, and I can wear them all day, they become alpine or long route shoes. When they are too trashed for outdoors, they too, become gym shoes. Then I use them in the gym until they are totally trashed.
3) Mythos: I briefly use them in the gym, until they are comfy, and I can put a sock in them. Then they become crack shoes. When they are trashed, they become gym shoes again.
I resole all my shoes repeatedly, until they are totally trashed. I like resoled shoes, including those with replacement toe caps. (All my shoes spend their final days getting trashed in the gym.)
I cannot climb routes quickly, if I must repeatedly remove my shoes,  because my feet hurt. So I want comfy shoes on longer routes.
This is just what works for me.
I have learned that it is not useful for me to repeatedly try new models of shoes. I stick with what I know (every now and then I get weak and try something new, and usually regret it.)
Good question!       

By the way; use shoes that work for you. Don’t use shoes just because they work for someone else. If the shoe fits, wear it!

Honestly, I basically have 2 active pairs at a time usually:

1) Anasazi Slipper - I use these in the gym, and for slab/crack climbing
2) Katana Lace/Otaki - I use these outdoors predominantly, for sport, trad, etc. I buy them so that my big toes is only slightly knuckled so that they are still comfortable in thin cracks.

Sometimes I will have a second of #2 that is newer that I kind of keep in reserves for harder sends/a bit of a confidence boost. However, I don't actually notice much of a difference most of the time. I will admit doing an extended day of climbing in the Anasazi's on tiny edges is possible but a little tiring (since they are softer you need to engage your foot a little more than you do with a stiffer laced shoe). Buy the Anasazi slippers tight if you decide to get them, they stretch like crazy.

I have only had bad experiences with resoling (usually delaminate within a  few gym sessions for me), but I think I usually send them for resole a tad too late.

Again get shoes that fit you, it sounds like you already have your arsenal, I think you just need to be willing to bring your Katana laces outside. I actually find the Katana laces to provide me with all day comfort, but I might be weird

I agree with Christopher. But do try to find a good resoler. It will save you money, you will help the local economy, reduce trash, and you may even prefer the resoles to newer shoes. There are many around, and I use a local person in SLC, but the Rubber Room is a good outfit with many years of experience. They do good work.

Always different shoes for the gym, the crazy sand paper texture kills edges when you need to pivot. I can use a pair of shoes on rock for a whole season and have a nice precise edge still, five sessions in the gym and edges end up rounded already. For sandstone and less angular granite the worn edges are fine.

My take is to always use the softest shoe possible for the size of hold. Sensitivity allows proception that leads to far more accurate foot placement. Once I quit using clogs like vapor, katana and tc pro in the gym (went to pythons) my footwork improved. In the gym I use dragos 90% of the time. On thin credit cards I’ll use katana laces, testarossa or the like.

I’ve tried a variety of shoes and fits for alpine/long multi pitch routes over the years. I’ve settled on a lightly down cambered shoe sized to not knuckle my big toe. For me that’s the katana lace a half size down from street shoe. I do pop heels at belays, but if you’re doing it right they are on and tight when your partner gets you on belay. For simul climbing 5.8 and below I tend to just throw on approach shoes.
Tried the comfy sized flat lasts and honestly they arent THAT comfy, don’t edge great and aren’t precise. I’d rather get way more comfort and a bit less performance in approach shoes. Flat shoes I’ve worn are tc pro, techno x, pinks and Maverinks.

When you wear out shoes and need something for the gym look for a “split sole” next round. These shoes can be stiffer under the toes still, but super soft through the arch. That will help you build foot strength. 
The only thing I would suggest is to not get anything designed for an aggressive knuckle bump of the big toe and stiffer midsole. While they are great for pulling hips in a rock over, toeing in on steeps, and micro edging they are NEVER comfortable.  Below the v4/5.12 level there is just no need for them. This would be testarossa, mago, shamans, etc. if the front of the toe looks very bulky/vertical/blunt viewed from the side it’s designed for that fit. Compare toe of the instinct vs and mago from the side to see what I mean.

As for using cheap beginner shoes in the gym, terrible idea. I know a lot of people who do, all of those people overgrip holds inside and on rock. They rarely can Pull their hips in well unless the footholds are totally incut.

What you do in the gym will completely effect you on rock. Get floppy flat shoes and you’ll never understand how to truly use your feet to drive your hips, you end up initiating movement from your upper body.

Yes so and so did blah blah route in EBs and sharma crushed in Mocs. Well watch closely, they’re all pulling fucking hard, sharma had absolute SHIT footwork when he was young. Watch any old climb from back in the day compared to now and you can see a massive change in how he uses his feet in aggressive shoes now.

Read Dave Macleod’s portion on shoes in 9 out of 10 climbers and Neil Grisham’s recent piece on ukclinbers.com for more thoughts in this. 

Your stretched out mythos might be just great with socks, which is nice when it’s cold (warm feet) and when it’s hot (dryer shoes).  

I agree with Live Perched. That is exactly what I do, especially the socks for cold weather climbs in the mountains.
 Given that I would never even consider simul-climbing any 5.8 in any shoes (much less in approach shoes), and am clearly unqualified to criticize Chis Sharma’s  footwork, I have no opinions regarding Nick Drake’s recommendations. Nick is clearly climbing at the elite level, or nearly so. If you climb like that, you certainly don’t need my advice. My comments are directed toward the schlumps like me, for whom a 5.7 or 5.8 pitch on an alpine route would constitute the crux of the climb. Personally, on longer, colder alpine routes, I would not want any shoe which fits so tightly I would ever wish to “pop the heels.”  I like to fit medium wool socks in my stretched out shoes, if the temperatures are cold. 

Peter Lenz wrote: I agree with Live Perched. That is exactly what I do, especially the socks for cold weather climbs in the mountains.
 Given that I would never even consider simul-climbing any 5.8 in any shoes (much less in approach shoes), and am clearly unqualified to criticize Chis Sharma’s  footwork, I have no opinions regarding Nick Drake’s recommendations. Nick is clearly climbing at the elite level, or nearly so. If you climb like that, you certainly don’t need my advice. My comments are directed toward the schlumps like me, for whom a 5.7 or 5.8 pitch on an alpine route would constitute the crux of the climb. Personally, on longer, colder alpine routes, I would not want any shoe which fits so tightly I would ever wish to “pop the heels.”  I like to fit medium wool socks in my stretched out shoes, if the temperatures are cold. 

Sorry if my post came off wrong, it wasn't intended to seem arrogant, although it reads that way a tad. While I appreciate the compliment, but I'm still far from elite! 

The socks and rock shoes definitely does work well for many in the alpine, for me it's just never that comfy. I have a haglunds deformity (bone spur on the heel) which hurts with any shoe that has medium to high rand tension. That sling shot puts pressure on it even in large sizes. Last year for the NE ridge of bugaboo I tried a pair of pinks a half size above my street shoe with liner socks, heels still killed me and the fit was only a little less sloppy a snug approach shoe. So my ideas come from avoiding pain, not trying to sound cool on the internet ;) I will say that climbing mid 5th in approach shoes wasn't totally straight forward, I put in time on TR to get used to only being able to smear.

Hi everyone,

I've been away for a while and I just wanted to drop by and thank you all for your advice it's greatly appreciated.

You guys really helped me out here and according to your thoughts and advice I think I will do it like that:
- Keep the Mythos for very easy multi pitch climbing and slabs.
- Stick to the KL as my general purpose shoe for now and probably resole it. Btw. I learned climbing in them and been using it for nearly 9 months now, rubber still looks great! I'm seriously impressed by this shoe. Also it just fits my stupid duck feet perfectly and it's been quite a task to find a well fitting shoe for me.
- Maybe I'll try a real soft slipper for gym use and bouldering and see how I get along with that. I remember doing gym sessions in my Mythos when they were new and snug and I felt very insecure and lost confidence quickly on tiny footholds. This is certainly because I never really climbed with a shoe this soft and it might help to improve my footwork and strengthen my leg muscles? Or it might not - really not sure about it  because I quickly stopped using the Mythos in the gym. I really wanted to like the Futura but I couldn't fit my feet in them in any size since the toebox seems to damn narrow.
- Get another multi pitch shoe with more edging power than the Mythos. I ordered TC Pros and Anasazi Pinks to see what suits me better, Katanas 1/2 size up from my current pair might also work.

Again cheers to all of you and have an awesome day!