New and Experienced Climbers over 50

Lori..."off-width" just means a crack that is too small to get inside of (to use chimney techniques), but too wide to simply hand or fist jam it. For most of us, it is a very, very awkward sized-crack. There are techniques, though, that work better than simply thrashing your way up (what I find myself doing way too often). Just Google around for off-width techniques. If you really want to see some inspirational off-width technique, check out any video with Pamela Shanti Pack in it. Like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUOl0M2cHbw

Daniel Joder wrote: Lori..."off-width" just means a crack that is too small to get inside of (to use chimney techniques), but too wide to simply hand or fist jam it. For most of us, it is a very, very awkward sized-crack. There are techniques, though, that work better than simply thrashing your way up (what I find myself doing way too often). Just Google around for off-width techniques. If you really want to see some inspirational off-width technique, check out any video with Pamela Shanti Pack in it. Like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUOl0M2cHbw

Watching this video has me laughing.  Let me try this! (No). But she is awesome! I’d love to show up with a couple cams that size and straight face tell Nelson this is what I plan to do.  

But seriously this video does bring up a question anyone I know seems to pooh pooh and that is, once you get a hand or foot or leg snugly wedged in there is there a chance of getting stuck? And if so, how do you get unstuck?  I found that with even some of the easy crack climbing there would be some “uh-oh” moments where I had to unwind to get my foot or hand out. 

Lori Milas wrote: But seriously this video does bring up a question anyone I know seems to pooh pooh and that is, once you get a hand or foot or leg snugly wedged in there is there a chance of getting stuck? And if so, how do you get unstuck?  I found that with even some of the easy crack climbing there would be some “uh-oh” moments where I had to unwind to get my foot or hand out. 

Look up the Whitney-Gilman route on Cannon Cliff in New Hampshire. Pitch 4 is renowned for a crack that eats knees. I've heard of motor oil being needed to free a stuck knee. And, yes, it got mine. I was able to free my knee by thinking of it as a stuck nut and lifting it up.

I’m looking forward to the day when this is all second nature, business as usual...no big deal. One day...

If you're talking about getting stuck in an OW, this video always seems appropriate...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dJLN43G6KA

Russ Walling wrote:

I have probably done that route over 50 times... maybe a hundred.  It used to be on the "circuit" BITD.  A lot of that stuff in the campground used to get lapped every morning by tons of people as a way to get the day going.  I don't think that goes on much anymore, where you might see 6 people train soloing, no rope, all at once.  Many of the campground classics, that route included, were done every day for entire seasons by that handful of people.  It is a great route for the grade and has it all.

oh Russ! That’s not what I want to hear! In my alternate reality world I discovered this climb. I actually saw it face to face for the first time yesterday and fell in love and now it’s “mine”...never climbed before, unknown to the world. 

For the moment I’m going to believe that.   But thank you SO MUCH for the coaching. 

I wanted to give a heartfelt thank you to everyone who pitched in with support on The Flake (and especially you, Russ...I hope you took my last post in the teasing way it was meant).
After all that though the Flake did not happen today.  Nelson thought we could ‘warm up’ on Old Woman route called Double Cross. It did me in. Maybe it was the 5 am wake up after finishing on Hemingway after dark last night...or maybe I’m just a beginner who doesn’t belong on a crack like this.  It was an amazing route to look at, but brutal to climb. Nelson coaching from the ground, me trying to wedge in hands and feet.  After I made it to the top the first time I needed a long break and so received a meticulous lesson on the ground on hand jamming and proper foot placement.  I climbed it a second time and that was it. Finished for this trip. Brought mustard and other relief...but it will be a week before I want to lift my arms again. I posted pictures on my profile page so as not to hog this thread continually.
I so want to hear about other climbs and other experiences of yours if you feel like it... really appreciate Jeff posting from wherever he is.  And again, thank you. You all have been wonderful.

Well.  FWIW I thought I'd just drop a line to say that 25 days after I completely snapped the proximal long head of my left biceps tendon I sent my first V5 boulder problem ever.  It was on a 45 degree wall at a local climbing gym (i.e. It was 'just' a problem set at an indoor gym, but still).  

The problem involved a dyno to the end (I normally don't even try dynos) and further to this I had to catch the hold I was dynoing to with my left hand (i.e. the side I'd snapped the tendon off).

So, I just wanted to share this in case anyone here is beset by a similar injury and gets depressed by it as I was only a couple of weeks ago   

Carl

Thinking about the miserable crack climb yesterday and wondering if different shoes could have helped. Like seriously padded ones.

It made a world of difference to find better shoes for slab. Are there crack shoes? (All sorts of images arise here.   

With all the coaching I got, it was still just painful to wedge a foot into that crack and bear down step upon step, even putting my weight where it belonged. Like bone on rock.

Climbing Double Cross and getting an intro to real crack climbing is a very worthy alternative to your Plan A.

The is, in fact, such a thing as crack shoes. Typically, if you're going to toe and foot jam you want a flat-lasted shoe with a bit of room in the toes so you aren't crushing your big toe when you twist that sucker into the crack.

But the truth is that crack climbing just hurts like hell and is frustrating until, one day, it starts to feel easy and natural.

Lori Milas wrote: I wanted to give a heartfelt thank you to everyone who pitched in with support on The Flake (and especially you, Russ...I hope you took my last post in the teasing way it was meant).
After all that though the Flake did not happen today.  Nelson thought we could ‘warm up’ on Old Woman route called Double Cross. It did me in. Maybe it was the 5 am wake up after finishing on Hemingway after dark last night...or maybe I’m just a beginner who doesn’t belong on a crack like this.  It was an amazing route to look at, but brutal to climb. Nelson coaching from the ground, me trying to wedge in hands and feet.  After I made it to the top the first time I needed a long break and so received a meticulous lesson on the ground on hand jamming and proper foot placement.  I climbed it a second time and that was it. Finished for this trip. Brought mustard and other relief...but it will be a week before I want to lift my arms again. I posted pictures on my profile page so as not to hog this thread continually.
I so want to hear about other climbs and other experiences of yours if you feel like it... really appreciate Jeff posting from wherever he is.  And again, thank you. You all have been wonderful.

I've always had a tendency to not foot jam as much as possible. Hands in splitters as needed but use anything available outside the crack and feet on edges or face holds most of the time.

I find this makes crack climbing more relaxed and provides more opportunities for rests.

At least for me..... ;)

Thank you Senor and John! I always appreciate your sharing.  I really let that difficult climb bug me...I wasn’t expecting to do that climb but I had it in my head that crack climbing was easy.  There was a lot of foot/hand coordination...and I think I still work too hard to find a solid handhold instead of just using my hands for balance.

Does it really get easier? I try to remind myself that I’m doing so much more than even a few months ago.

If it’s of any interest I just discovered that my friend had taken a video of Nelson as he climbed Double Cross for me, to demo where I f’d up. (He would not say that).  It’s all learning, right? Hopefully I can start learning by watching others. (Sorry I thought this was the video. It’s me. )

Lori Milas wrote: Thinking about the miserable crack climb yesterday and wondering if different shoes could have helped. Like seriously padded ones.

It made a world of difference to find better shoes for slab. Are there crack shoes? (All sorts of images arise here.   

With all the coaching I got, it was still just painful to wedge a foot into that crack and bear down step upon step, even putting my weight where it belonged. Like bone on rock.

Hi Lori!  *waving*

I learned to climb crack last November while on vacation in Joshua Tree and didn't have crack climbing shoes. Just a tad bit painful, but I made it through okay. *L*  Got back home and continued my crack climbing lessons (indoor) and bought me some Butora Altura Green (green for wide, red for narrow). I did try on the La Sportiva TC Pros but it didn't feel right on my feet. The Altura's fit me like a glove right outta box. Yeah, I found it to be so painful jamming, especially foot jam. But it's actually better now...there is just pressure and no pain when I foot jam. 

Crack climbing is totally different than climbing on typical holds. It's more like placing protection on a trad route in terms of technique and thought process. You can often find a hold inside a crack and fake it, but true crack jamming takes a lot of developed skill and practice. 

Some pain is unavoidable, but much of it can be alleviated or eliminated by minor readjustments of the depth of the foot jam,  Moving your foot in a little or out a little changes the pressure points and sometimes that's all it takes.  Once you've done that a bunch of times, you'l naturally put your foot in the right position to minimize discomfort.

You gotta have shoes fitted with toes flat and it helps to wear socks inside them.

There is some bad news.  As you get older, you lose some of the padding that used to lie between skin and bone, and jamming just plain hurts more than when you were young.  You don't have the prior experience to compare to, but are still experiencing the effect.

Señor Arroz wrote: Crack climbing is totally different than climbing on typical holds. It's more like placing protection on a trad route in terms of technique and thought process. You can often find a hold inside a crack and fake it, but true crack jamming takes a lot of developed skill and practice. 

So it sounds like next time I am invited by a chirpy Nelson to go on this awesome and fun new climb, I can tell him "Stop reading The Rock Warrior's Way.  I already know it's gonna be awful".   I have to admit, I do love his absolute positivism... and in fact, that of the climbing community in general.  I have to continually remind myself to shape up my own attitude, be grateful, bring a positive and true heart to these climbs.  
That crack climb hurt, but I'm guessing with some practice, it will get better.  Thank you, again! 

rgold wrote: Some pain is unavoidable, but much of it can be alleviated or eliminated by minor readjustments of the depth of the foot jam,  Moving your foot in a little or out a little changes the pressure points and sometimes that's all it takes.  Once you've done that a bunch of times, you'l naturally put your foot in the right position to minimize discomfort.

You gotta have shoes fitted with toes flat and it helps to wear socks inside them.

There is some bad news.  As you get older, you loose some of the padding that used to lie between skin and bone, and jamming just plain hurts more than when you were young.  You don't have the prior experience to comare to, but are still experiencing the effect.

Are you saying have my own toes flat when fitting a shoe... or get the flat bottomed shoes (not turned down, or up).  Either way, I think I see a problem.  My shoes are very tight, my toes scrunched up and almost curled... which helped a lot with the hard slabs.  But it was just painful in that crack.  Wow... could that be part of the problem?
Is this why climbers carry around several pairs of shoes?  
(Funny... I have girlfriends who have lots of shoes.  I have the bare minimum and no longer any heels.  But climbing shoes... I could accumulate those!)  

Lori Milas wrote:

Are you saying have my own toes flat when fitting a shoe... or get the flat bottomed shoes (not turned down, or up).  Either way, I think I see a problem.  My shoes are very tight, my toes scrunched up and almost curled... which helped a lot with the hard slabs.  But it was just painful in that crack.  Wow... could that be part of the problem?
Is this why climbers carry around several pairs of shoes?  
(Funny... I have girlfriends who have lots of shoes.  I have the bare minimum and no longer any heels.  But climbing shoes... I could accumulate those!)  

You're asking Rgold, I guess, but yes, crack jamming shoes should't have scrunched toes.  Flat shoes with room for your toes to not be smashed up. Of course, if a climb has a crack but a lot of precise edging or face holds you might want to consider that, too. I suspect you could almost always find a face hold on Double Cross if you were looking. 

Lori Milas wrote: Thinking about the miserable crack climb yesterday and wondering if different shoes could have helped. Like seriously padded ones.

It made a world of difference to find better shoes for slab. Are there crack shoes? (All sorts of images arise here.   

With all the coaching I got, it was still just painful to wedge a foot into that crack and bear down step upon step, even putting my weight where it belonged. Like bone on rock.

These work for me, especially in wide cracks, which I’m learning at the moment. That rubber over the flat, toe area, high ankle with padding, and other features as well. These make my enjoy crack climbing so much more. It’s not for everyone but these work for me!

Lovey Harwood wrote: These work for me, especially in wide cracks, which I’m learning at the moment. That rubber over the flat, toe area, high ankle with padding, and other features as well. These make my enjoy crack climbing so much more. It’s not for everyone but these work for me!

Lovey, are these the Altura's you spoke of?  They look great!