Arthritis and....

Old lady H wrote:

All, I'm a work in progress, that's for sure. I see the PT tomorrow, and will have to admit I have done zip as far as the exercises she gave me. Even with such high stakes, I still have a hard time talking myself into slogging through exercises.

I also have to admit I'm really, really missing my climbing gym. Going somewhere I enjoy, with people I like, vs stretchy bands and yoga ball at home? I'm just finding it bleak. I'll get there, I have to. End of whine.

i can offer that... due to the entropic nature of the universe (things fall apart)... if you avoid the slog for long enough... eventually the body will deteriorate to the point where... you may be unable to make any movements other than to do PT.. 

bleak, i know... but take it from me.. you don't want to end up there.. it was pretty dire for a while there for me.

the movie Meru, and it's stories of massive recovery...really helped to kick my ass in-gear when I was at my lowest points..

claty - hey, that was comprehensive, thanks much. I personally didn't have noticeable effects with fish oil, but I completely eliminated heavy daily doses of advil with Curcumin (Turmeric), but it took about 40-60 days to saturate with it before it really kicked it. Can't imagine climbing without it years later.

J Squared, yes, I totally understand I need to get it together, and I will. Thanks!

Re turmeric, my doc actually mentioned it, and asked me to let her know if I did try it, how it went. I did it for awhile, and others things too, but probably not long enough. I'm not very good at regimen, so it's a challenge I have to work on. That carries over into exercise, too, of course. Being active, I am doing well at, or was. Losing the gym is something I don't have good replacements for, especially the people part. I may need to pop for a class, if I can't get anyone interested in training together.

Re specialists, would you say sports medicine, joint specialist, or arthritis specialist? I do want someone who can see past the old lady sitting there. That's a challenge, too, the underestimation and very low expectations of what an older woman should be doing. Ice climbing and getting ripped just isn't on their radar.

Anyway, thanks, all. I'll pull out the glucosamine and turmeric bottles, and start lining out some plans.

I liked Meru a lot, too, by the way. Beautifully filmed (no surprise there), but a great story. All that back story, the failures, the struggles, are all what made the human stories special. I enjoy The Firn Line, for the same sort of human stories.

That's also why I'm on here. You. The people are a large part of climbing, for me.

Best, OLH

Re "Tart Cherry Juice"...(and about any other highly-acidic mixture(s) like grapefruit juice+vinagar, etc)  My dad tied this (for hips) and it "worked" for a few weeks. I guess it changed his blood chemistry from "normal to a bit acidic"  and he got a bad case of gout as the uric acid in his blood decided to crystallize out in his big toe joints.   Granted, he had a higher-than-normal level of uric acid to begin with, but be forewarned the "cure might be worse than the disease".  

Old lady H wrote:

I also have to admit I'm really, really missing my climbing gym. Going somewhere I enjoy, with people I like, vs stretchy bands and yoga ball at home? I'm just finding it bleak. I'll get there, I have to. End of whine.

Thanks for all the input from everyone, much appreciated!

Best, OLH

Is there a reason you quit the gym? Climbing can be compatible with arthritis, and even PT. If you're interested in distraction athroplasty, you can see a picture of me continuing to climb on my doctor's website: 

https://www.hss.edu/conditions_ankle-distraction-arthroplasty.asp#2

I climbed through multiple surgeries, and PT. It was even encouraged. I also did a lot of Iyengar yoga, which I found to be hugely helpful in keeping the rest of my body healthy when I did have to take time off. 

claty wrote:

Is there a reason you quit the gym? Climbing can be compatible with arthritis, and even PT. If you're interested in distraction athroplasty, you can see a picture of me continuing to climb on my doctor's website: 

https://www.hss.edu/conditions_ankle-distraction-arthroplasty.asp#2

I climbed through multiple surgeries, and PT. It was even encouraged. I also did a lot of Iyengar yoga, which I found to be hugely helpful in keeping the rest of my body healthy when I did have to take time off. 

The gym closed. They were supposed to have 18-24  months, but that got moved up to about a month. There's other stuff out there, and coming in a couple years, maybe, but that was pretty much the main place here for roped climbing. I was going in the morning before work, twice a week, and an evening now and then.

My over use that pushed me to the doc, was a couple weeks ago, climbing the entire gym on their last day. My last move, pushing midnight, was off the hardest, most overhanging wall, on a lead. Full Dyno, almost at the top. It was a glorious day, and sooo worth my knee hating me for the two plus weeks since!

I'll be getting one evening per week, indoors roped, and hopefully every other week or so something outside, but it still is a big void I have to fill. That first thing, on autobelays in an empty gym, was the cornerstone of all of my gains I've made the last half year or so.

Best, OLH

Old lady H wrote
Re specialists, would you say sports medicine, joint specialist, or arthritis specialist?

If it were me, I would see an orthopedic surgeon who does knee replacements if its osteoarthritis, and a rheumatologist if its something else. Your primary care physician should be able to tell if its OA with an xray. If the orthopedist says its time for surgery, I would start doing PT, get as strong as possible, and do it. If its not bone on bone yet, then look at some other options... injections (viscosupplementation, stem cells) supplements (turmeric, glucosamine, etc) , PT, braces, weight loss...

Also, check out Asana, Boise State, etc. Buy a hangboard. Sad to hear UA closed. I am from Boise and made a lot of friends there as well. I also worked in a few libraries in the area. I'm sure we have some mutual connections.

Ryan Pfleger wrote:

If it were me, I would see an orthopedic surgeon who does knee replacements if its osteoarthritis, and a rheumatologist if its something else. Your primary care physician should be able to tell if its OA with an xray. If the orthopedist says its time for surgery, I would start doing PT, get as strong as possible, and do it. If its not bone on bone yet, then look at some other options... injections (viscosupplementation, stem cells) supplements (turmeric, glucosamine, etc) , PT, braces, weight loss...

Also, check out Asana, Boise State, etc. Buy a hangboard. Sad to hear UA closed. I am from Boise and made a lot of friends there as well. I also worked in a few libraries in the area. I'm sure we have some mutual connections.

Thanks, Ryan! Osteo, pretty straight forward, and as these things go, not too bad, yet. I'm with a PT, set up for about six weeks worth. Every other one is in the BSU pool, so I'll be there for sure every two weeks, and if I can round up partners, once a week. 

Exercise, supplements, lose a little more weight...and try not to lose my stoke.

I filled in on courier now and then, so if you ever saw a short old lady shoving bins around, we have crossed paths!

Hangboard, no, my hands are kinda beat up so I won't be pushing them. Ditto on Asana, the bouldering isn't the best for me, plus they raised their prices. Urban was an easy, before work thing, Asana wouldn't be.

I am thinking about getting a Trex type setup at home, perhaps with rock rings. I dunno. It's the people part that's the real crux. That, and staying motivated to keep slogging.

I've got my annual physical in a couple weeks. I'll see what she has to say, and if a specialist is in my near future.

Best, OLH

Interesting on the stem cell treatments did insurance pay for that? I have a talas injury, bone on bone. I find that a brace helps quite a bit to keep the area from compressing too much. I really notice the difference if I don't wear the brace in hiking or biking. I also notice that the stiffer the boot the better, I do really well in mountaineering boots like la sportiva nepals. Thank for the info on the tumeric and glucos.. I will have to get more disciplined on that. 

I added some information in May ‘18.  I was five or so weeks out from a massive amount of stem cell injections (190 in five locations).  At this point - eight months later - I am sad to report that they had no beneficial results.  I climbed all summer, went to the Dolomites in Aug/Sept and have climbed since and see no lasting or promised improvements as advertised.  In fact, I  problaby wasted $21K.  Insurance does not pay for Stem Cell work.  I have had better success with Ozone injections in my knees and each injections only cost around $300.  Here’s what works for me:  Climbing a lot - several times a week, and when the pain becomes unbearable - hydrocodon.  One or two pills a week after hard days, long hanging belays, long approaches or downclimbing.  Yeah, I know - there’s a big so-called opiod epidemic going on out there.  Still, it works for me and is a miracle drug for a productive climbing life style.

Thanks much for taking the time to share that.
Glad you find your way to manage it.
. . . (even more glad that I don't need to manage it).

Wow! Kinda surprised to see a thread that I'm interested in, arthritis, only to discover it's my own oldish thread, lol!

Update on my progress. It has come down to an approach proven to be very effective in study after study: lose weight and keep moving. Since my post upstream in May, I've been working with a trainer, doing free weights at home, with exercises also. I have lost close to 10 pounds (136+ to 127-8) and it really shows. My climbing is lots better, and, although I can't yet sit back on my heels, I do have both knees bending a lot further than they did half a year ago.

And, wahoo!!!, just today? I finally not only got a foot up (highish step, for me), I had the strength to stand up on it. Previously I had to mostly pull to get up on a leg. That's a truly big deal when that same knee bent less than 90 degrees a couple years ago.

Best wishes to all! Helen

Oh. And I'm 62, as of Saturday.

)Not sure if it was mentioned....I have been dealing with "Pretty bad arthritis" (yes quoted from my orthopedic). Physical Therapy really helped. It wasnt  worth going to see my Ortho beyond getting x-rays and getting confirmed what I already knew. My knees were so bad that the five stairs in my house brought me to tears. My wife would ask me to get something, then remeber it was up the stairs and go get it herself.

Get a prescription for PT and then do it, has made my ski season wonderful!

On the drug front, I talked to a friend who is a climber and was an RA clinical trials nurse for years. She said everyone responds differently to different drugs and you just have to go through the various available options/alternatives and figure out what works for you (she also said that can take some time, is sometimes frustrating, but stick with the process).

Eric Bonin wrote: I have been dealing with "Pretty bad arthritis" (yes quoted from my orthopedic). Physical Therapy really helped. It wasnt  worth going to see my Ortho beyond getting x-rays and getting confirmed what I already knew.

It seems to me that whatever physiotherapist is doing you can do it yourself as a part of your regular physical exercises.

Could you please share your exercises that helped you with arthritis?
Specifically I am interested in knee osteoarthritis.
So far I am only running a bit and walking up and down stairs.

I have arthritis all over my body. Had a hip replacement and severely torn meniscus repair (not meniscectomy!). I'm now climbing as hard as I ever have and I've done Everything! All the oils, juices, treatments.... In my experience, here is my advice. 

Keep moving, get a really good PT and personal trainer that gets climbing and aging injuries. Do weight bearing strength training. It's the number one best treatment for my knee. 

Eat well... just a basic plant based high protein diet. Feed your body. Don't go down the rabbit trails of potions and diets.

Also, you will find a wide range of opinions from Orthopods. Get to one that works on older athletes. I was told everything from im too young for hip replacement, to I will never run, climb or ski again. Welp, the surgeon I choose said I will have no limitations and he was correct! I'm still moving just as much as ever.  

Knees are tougher for arthroplasty. Train hard before and after. In my opinion it's the best thing you can do for success. 

I have a really crappy right knee a legacy from my skiing life. I have severe 3 compartment OA. I’ve avoided cortisone injections for years because of evidence that they are bad for cartilage in the long term. In the last 6 months I’ve had two ultrasound guided PRP injections that have been very helpful. My range of motion is much better,  my knee is less swollen than it has been in years and it hurts less. When I do aggravate it it’s better the next day instead of a week later. The ultrasound guided part is important though. Without it up to 50% of injections miss the joint. 

Yury wrote:

It seems to me that whatever physiotherapist is doing you can do it yourself as a part of your regular physical exercises.

Could you please share your exercises that helped you with arthritis?
Specifically I am interested in knee osteoarthritis.
So far I am only running a bit and walking up and down stairs.

It was a lot of eccentric and single-leg stuff. Focusing on my glutes and ab and adductor muscles. The idea creating strong muscles around the knee.