Rappelling: Have I Been Doing it Wrong?

When rappelling, I always thought you set up your rappel/belay device exactly as you would when belaying—in terms of device and rope orientation. Is this not the case?

Out of boredom, I watched a bunch of YouTube videos (probably a mistake on my part lol) of people setting up rappels. And the vast majority of them set up their belay/rappel device by threading the rope inverted. Meaning, instead of the rope coming down from above, entering the tube device from the rear, out and down to the ground from the front... they put a bight in the rope by inverting the rope in the other direction and threading the device backwards so the brake strand comes out the rear, toward you. You wouldn't belay this way and it looks strange to me. Now I'm wondering if I've just been doing it wrong this whole time? Seems like it works either way, but this just looks wrong to me. Yet so many people in videos do this. And I've seen people at the crag do it this way too.

You spelled it right. Usually.

The device in the middle two photos is of a symmetric plate design, i.e. it doesn't matter which side of the device the rope comes out of. Having the rope exit the device as in those photos is more common for folks using such devices who also rap with the rope over their leg vs. between their legs. It's fine using this device either way.

The device in the lower photo is an asymmetric design where it does matter which side of the device the rope exits from and it is oriented as it should be in the photo. Whether the rope then goes over your leg or between them is a matter of personal preference.

Healyje wrote: The device in the upper two photos is of a symmetric plate design, i.e. it doesn't matter which side of the device the rope comes out of. Having the rope exit the device as in those photos is more common for folks using such devices who also rap with the rope over their leg vs. between their legs. It's fine using this device either way.

The device in the lower photo is an asymmetric design where it does matter which side of the device the rope exits from and it is oriented as it should be in the photo. Whether the rope then goes over your leg or between them is a matter of personal preference.

So with a device such as an ATC or Reverso, you can orient it so the brake strand comes out toward your body instead away from you? I'm not talking about using the side with the teeth vs no teeth. You can thread the device with the brake strand going over the teeth, but then you can flip the whole thing around so the brake comes toward you instead of away?

FourT6and2 ... wrote:

So with a device such as an ATC or Reverso, you can orient it so the brake strand comes out toward your body instead away from you? I'm not talking about using the side with the teeth vs no teeth. You can thread the device with the brake strand going over the teeth, but then you can flip the whole thing around so the brake comes toward you instead of away?

I'm sure you could, it would just be awkward having the brake hand so close to your body.

Igor Chained wrote:

I'm sure you could, it would just be awkward having the brake hand so close to your body.

Yeah that's what I've always thought. But seeing so many people do it, I was like WTF I've been doing it wrong lol

Personally I´ve always done it your way and that´s how we teach it as well. The "other" way is fine but probably better suited to beginners on easy-angled stuff than free hanging. Whatever floats your boat really.

Igor Chained wrote:

I'm sure you could, it would just be awkward having the brake hand so close to your body.

Agreed. Brake strands away from my body for better ergonomics. But you can do it either way.

Jim Titt wrote: Personally I´ve always done it your way and that´s how we teach it as well. The "other" way is fine but probably better suited to beginners on easy-angled stuff than free hanging. Whatever floats your boat really.

Ah makes sense that maybe it's easier on low-angled terrain vs free hanging.

Looks like you added a top photo or I missed it the first time - don't rap that way.

The first photo is low angle since the device points out and away from her body.  In vertical rappels, the device will point more upwards towards your chin.   Brake hand below works better.  

Another tidbit is how does the rope feed in vs out.  If the brake position is at an angle to the device causing the rope to enter at a different angle than it exits, it may cause the rope to "roll" as it enters, leading to some twists in the rope, which is more likely with the first photo setup in a vertical rappel.
YMMV

Cool, thanks y'all

What worries me more is the lack of a back up in these pictures.

Kees van der Heiden wrote: What worries me more is the lack of a back up in these pictures.

Backups are for chumps..... ;)

I notice that neither climber has the rappel backed up. It dosnt look like you could put a prussik on a leg loop that way. If it were extended it looks possible but I dont see any benifit. Fireman belay might be harder too. Ill try it sometime.

I meant having the brake strand come out the top of the belay device, looks like it would make all backups more difficult.

The pics show the device off an extension.  If it were direct into the belay loop, the rope might have to turn over the device more sharply, which may add kinks.  I use an Alpine Smart, and for the device to lock and release, the rope has to run the way you have been doing it.

With a belay/rap device with "teeth" my general rule is that if: 1) I am on a less-than-vertical rap, and 2) I've done the rap before (so I know it won't go vertical or overhanging, and 3) the ropes are 9.2 mm or thicker I will usually orient the device so the teeth are NOT aligned to break (like an original ATC without "teeth") as this allows for a much smoother rap.

 If: 1) I know it's vertical or overhanging ("free") or 2) I've never done the rap before, or 3) they are small diameter ropes, I'll always orient so the "teeth" can grip when the break hand wants to break.

Note that the conditions of the 1st paragraph are all linked by "and", i.e. ALL must apply; whereas the 2nd paragraph are linked by "or", if ANY condition applies.
   

Matt Himmelstein wrote: The pics show the device off an extension.  If it were direct into the belay loop, the rope might have to turn over the device more sharply, which may add kinks.  I use an Alpine Smart, and for the device to lock and release, the rope has to run the way you have been doing it.

None of the pics I posted show the belay device extended. They are all attached directly to the belay loop with a carabiner.

Robert Hall wrote: With a belay/rap device with "teeth" my general rule is that if: 1) I am on a less-than-vertical rap, and 2) I've done the rap before (so I know it won't go vertical or overhanging, and 3) the ropes are 9.2 mm or thicker I will usually orient the device so the teeth are NOT aligned to break (like an original ATC without "teeth") as this allows for a much smoother rap.

 If: 1) I know it's vertical or overhanging ("free") or 2) I've never done the rap before, or 3) they are small diameter ropes, I'll always orient so the "teeth" can grip when the break hand wants to break.

Note that the conditions of the 1st paragraph are all linked by "and", i.e. ALL must apply; whereas the 2nd paragraph are linked by "or", if ANY condition applies.
   

Maybe I'm not communicating it cleary. But it's not about brake on the teeth or not on the teeth. It's about the bight of rope you use to thread the device being inverted or not, so the brake is either coming out facing away from you (like when you actually belay someone) or coming out toward your body (which you would NEVER do when belaying). You can turn an ATC Guide or Petzl Reverso around and then thread it, so you're braking with the low-friction side of the device. That's perfectly fine. It even says so in the literature from both companies (and others). But that's not what I was asking about. Imagine the brake side of the rope coming out facing your belly button. That's what's happening here.

FourT6and2 ... wrote:

None of the pics I posted show the belay device extended. They are all attached directly to the belay loop with a carabiner.

The device looks like it is further away than it should be if it were direct into the loops, but I could be wrong.  I frequently am abaout a great many things.

Still, I am with you on your original way of doing it.  I can't have the rope feed back to my body because of how the assisted braking works on the Smart and I think that threading it this way makes the rope more likely to twist.