How not to die!

James Schroeder wrote:

To be clear.

1. I asked to lead through on a route when their current climber was finished and they declined.
2. I led a nearby route.
3. I didn't knock any rocks down on them, and I wasn't in the vicinity of any obviously loose rock.
4. I started a whole thread to apologize for my curt tone, but I won't apologize for climbing a neighboring route that was not an additional hazard.

But nice troll.

Dude, you totally fell into his trap. LOL!

Franck Vee wrote:

... or rappelling off the end, or putting just one strand into their rappelling device.

Rappelling off instead of lowering is just dumb, period, I'm pretty sure we had settle that debate already long ago (saved for a few dummies perhaps).

*Sound of a grenade lobbed through the air*

I have a friend who broke both legs and would disagree with that.

OrganicChemistry wrote:

Oh ye kettle...

care to explain how you see  someone's skin color as a factor in this? 

Just want an explanation as to how this is appropriate. Mods? 

Relax braj.  He's a white guy pontificating as if he were as wise as Confucius.  Duh.  Is it now inappropriate to call a white guy white?  

"Mods?"  lol

don'tchuffonme wrote:

Relax braj.  He's a white guy pontificating as if he were as wise as Confucius.  Duh.  Is it now inappropriate to call a white guy white?  

"Mods?"  lol

I don't find anything LOL about it 

Just wondering why does it matter if he's white, green or orange? 

don'tchuffonme wrote:

Relax braj.  He's a white guy pontificating as if he were as wise as Confucius.  Duh.  Is it now inappropriate to call a white guy white?  

"Mods?"  lol

Or do you look at everyone and see a skin color? 

I think the only person it matters to is you.

don'tchuffonme wrote: I think the only person it matters to is you.

Then it matters. This type of thinking is what has lead this country down the path we are on. 

What type of thinking is my thinking, what path are we on? 

don'tchuffonme wrote:

Relax braj.  He's a white guy pontificating as if he were as wise as Confucius.  Duh.  Is it now inappropriate to call a white guy white?  

"Mods?"  lol

In your reply, skin color was still factor, yet to you, just to be blown off as no big deal because the color is white. 

don'tchuffonme wrote: What type of thinking is my thinking, what path are we on? 

 I’m not going to make assumptions about you but  that’s the path we’re on. 

That path of assuming leads to protesting that a Starbucks manager is racist because he called the police after two black men would not leave his store. 

 The path we’re on turns racism into a news story which turns people against each other on Facebook. It ends with friends hating each other.
 Too bad the path doesn’t lead to white and black sitting down and discussing their concerns like adults.

Bill Kirby wrote:

 I’m not going to make assumptions about you but  that’s the path we’re on. 

That path of assuming leads to protesting that a Starbucks manager is racist because he called the police after two black men would not leave his store. 

 The path we’re on turns racism into a news story which turns people against each other on Facebook. It ends with friends hating each other.
 Too bad the path doesn’t lead to white and black sitting down and discussing their concerns like adults.

This thread got messed up.......

"Racism" is at an all time high due to the media promoting it for sure.....

Nuff said, can we go back to the climbing discussion now. Y'all.... ;)

Tradiban wrote:

Not to mention people getting lowered off the end of a rope!

Hmmm, yes. That's definitely impossible to avoid.

Oh. Wait.

Tradiban wrote:
When will you stop making excuses and start taking responsibility for your own safety?

I didn't even have to swing to hit that out of the park.

Phil Lauffen wrote:

Hmmm, yes. That's definitely impossible to avoid.

Oh. Wait.

I didn't even have to swing to hit that out of the park.

It is the climbers responsibility to make sure that the rope they are climbing on is long enough to be lowered.

Bill Kirby wrote:

 I’m not going to make assumptions about you but  that’s the path we’re on. 

That path of assuming leads to protesting that a Starbucks manager is racist because he called the police after two black men would not leave his store. 

 The path we’re on turns racism into a news story which turns people against each other on Facebook. It ends with friends hating each other.
 Too bad the path doesn’t lead to white and black sitting down and discussing their concerns like adults.

Ok, I’ll bite.  Why do you think the manager called the police?  Do you honestly believe this would have happened if the men were white?  Two well dressed real estate agents were meeting a coworker at a Starbucks.  One asked to use the restroom and the manager asked them to leave then called the cops.  This sounds appropriate to you?  Have you seen the video?  Literally everyone in the store was pointing out how messed up the situation was.

The problem is that people are losing their ability to empathize with anyone remotely different than them and are backing themselves into corners and choosing their “teams.”  Take a second to imagine what it would be like to be black in America, where you will be perceived as a thug or a threat no matter your income level, how you dress, or how you behave.  Where you have to worry about being shot by police when they pull you over and when they pull you over for questioning on the campus where you teach.  If that’s not racist, I don’t know what is.

Ted Pinson wrote:

Ok, I’ll bite.  Why do you think the manager called the police?  Do you honestly believe this would have happened if the men were white?  Two well dressed real estate agents were meeting a coworker at a Starbucks.  One asked to use the restroom and the manager asked them to leave then called the cops.  This sounds appropriate to you?  Have you seen the video?  Literally everyone in the store was pointing out how messed up the situation was.

The problem is that people are losing their ability to empathize with anyone remotely different than them and are backing themselves into corners and choosing their “teams.”  Take a second to imagine what it would be like to be black in America, where you will be perceived as a thug or a threat no matter your income level, how you dress, or how you behave.  Where you have to worry about being shot by police when they pull you over and when they pull you over for questioning on the campus where you teach.  If that’s not racist, I don’t know what is.

They weren't asked to leave because they were black, they were asked to leave because they were real estate agents. They were probably taking over too much space on the community board with their business cards.

Tradiban wrote
So, what's your philosophy regarding your own safety while climbing? What do you do in order to not die?

I just stay in the meadow and spray in stead of climbing :-)

I have done a bunch of rope soloing, and have found that this is a good way to thoroughly drill rope systems and routines.  It forces you into a very self-centred state of mind and let's you make your own choices, find your own limits and your own particular strengths and weaknesses... IF you reflect on it a bit at least.

This might seem a bit silly to everyone, over the years I have developed a sort of gut feeling which I actually rely on quite a bit. If something feels 'off' somehow, I'd much rather back down. This is actually some variant of doubt I guess, but in the end I don't mind topping out or not and would rather back off than approach the true limit.

At any rate, as with all things, I think there is a bit of luck involved in not dying, but I feel as if though that percentage is close to life on the horizontal plane.  

Franck Vee wrote:

... or putting just one strand into their rappelling device.

We lost one this way at the second rap anchor from the ground on a multi-pitch descent route. It left his first-time ever climbing partner stranded at the anchor as he took the rope went with him when he went. Luckily other people came down that descent route to rescue him. Definitely want to check that both sides are in and both are in the carabiner.

Odd L wrote:

I just stay in the meadow and spray in stead of climbing :-)

I have done a bunch of rope soloing, and have found that this is a good way to thoroughly drill rope systems and routines.  It forces you into a very self-centred state of mind and let's you make your own choices, find your own limits and your own particular strengths and weaknesses... IF you reflect on it a bit at least.

This might seem a bit silly to everyone, over the years I have developed a sort of gut feeling which I actually rely on quite a bit. If something feels 'off' somehow, I'd much rather back down. This is actually some variant of doubt I guess, but in the end I don't mind topping out or not and would rather back off than approach the true limit.

At any rate, as with all things, I think there is a bit of luck involved in not dying, but I feel as if though that percentage is close to life on the horizontal plane.  

Nice.

So one thing I realized after climbing trad for a while and following more experienced climbers was that I didn’t know the ideal range of my cams as well as I thought I did.  I see this in other new leaders a lot, especially on that bad Trad movies thread - what they think is a “good” placement is actually tipped out.  I think it’s because you take something like a big C4, which has this HUGE expansion range, and you think the best way to place it would be somewhere in the middle of that range, when really, you want it closer to overcammed.  

When I went climbing with an experienced partner and followed one of his pitches, I kept remarking to myself “man, he really overcams these.  He’s going to get one stuck!”  After a while, I reflected on this and realized: “oh, it’s because he doesn’t want to die.”  I realized that I was placing pro in a way so that it would be easy to retrieve because I was afraid of losing my shiny, expensive bling, when the priority needs to be on safety.  So on the subject of “how not to die,” I like to err on the side of having to buy a new $60 cam rather than pay for a trip to the hospital and/or morgue.  Same principle applies to a lot of things we do...no piece of shiny metal is worth more than your life.  Don’t be afraid to leave gear behind.