New and Experienced Climbers over 50

Lori Milas wrote: Is anyone interested in the subject of nutrition?  (If not, I'll leave it alone).  Thinking about what Roy wrote, especially on keeping the weight to strength ratio where it should be.  I'm well aware of how much easier climbing would be for me if I carried 20 less pounds.  That would be my college weight, which looked great then, but today would look and FEEL sickly..."

I'm certainly interested in nutrition, but without being too precise about it.  When I started climbing five years ago (at age 50) I weighed 79 kilos.  This was at a height of 168 cm.  I used to lift a lot of weights back then, so I DID carry a lot more muscle.  Now, at age 56, I weigh around 62 - 63 kilos at about 11.8% BF (I weigh myself every day).  I still feel I'm quite strong (in regards to climbing, though not weight lifting) so I feel my power to weight ratio is not too bad.   My weight pretty much is my 'college' weight however, I DO look a little gaunt at times and unfortunately as we all know baggy skin is a bit of a curse (my skin would be tighter if I was fatter!  !).

In regards to actual nutrition, for the last six months I ate as a pescetarian, and am now moving towards being vegan.  I'm eating quite a lot of beans which are high in protein and supplement with hemp protein powder, but I don't actually record how much protein I get.

I think, for me, if I really wanted to be more serious about nutrition and performance I'd do two main things.  I'd reduce my alcohol intake and I'd drink more water.  I think I'd get more gains out of those two strategies than working out how much protein I get or don't get.  I do feel the supplement industry pushes protein intake as well as all the other supplements we're told we need, and I feel we don't need as much as what we're told we need.

BTW I used to use whey protein powder or whey protein mixed with green pea protein.  I find the hemp protein very digestible and it has the benefit of (while being less protein per 100) containing more fibre.

Carl Schneider wrote:

I'm certainly interested in nutrition, but without being too precise about it.  When I started climbing five years ago (at age 50) I weighed 79 kilos.  This was at a height of 168 cm.  I used to lift a lot of weights back then, so I DID carry a lot more muscle.  Now, at age 56, I weigh around 62 - 63 kilos at about 11.8% BF (I weigh myself every day).  I still feel I'm quite strong (in regards to climbing, though not weight lifting) so I feel my power to weight ratio is not too bad.   My weight pretty much is my 'college' weight however, I DO look a little gaunt at times and unfortunately as we all know baggy skin is a bit of a curse (my skin would be tighter if I was fatter!  !).

In regards to actual nutrition, for the last six months I ate as a pescetarian, and am now moving towards being vegan.  I'm eating quite a lot of beans which are high in protein and supplement with hemp protein powder, but I don't actually record how much protein I get.

I think, for me, if I really wanted to be more serious about nutrition and performance I'd do two main things.  I'd reduce my alcohol intake and I'd drink more water.  I think I'd get more gains out of those two strategies than working out how much protein I get or don't get.  I do feel the supplement industry pushes protein intake as well as all the other supplements we're told we need, and I feel we don't need as much as what we're told we need.

BTW I used to use whey protein powder or whey protein mixed with green pea protein.  I find the hemp protein very digestible and it has the benefit of (while being less protein per 100) containing more fibre.

Thanks for sharing, Carl. (I had to do the kilo conversion   ) Dietetics was one of my majors in college, and so I have read volumes on nutrition ever since.  One thing I have learned is that one size does not fit all.  You are listening to your body... and so if it drifts vegan, and you can stay strong, then you're doing it right.  I was a thriving vegetarian for some years, but then it was over. I could not make it work any longer.  
So, you are 55 and starting to turn that corner into being ... older.  Things start to change.  

I feel a real sense of urgency to keep my body fit as long as possible, because my friends and family of my age have all gone to pot. I'm also a Type 1 diabetic (insulin dependent).  After some rough days on the rock a few years ago I started looking around for other diabetic climbers.  No one wants to have a crashing blood sugar while at the top of a pitch.  All the climbers I know stopped eating carbs almost entirely, have gone to the 'keto' diet, and now they are almost non-diabetic.  That's lots of protein.  

The question I have asked is WHY do we lose muscle mass (10% per decade), and vigor, endurance, and heart health... immunity.  Is it inevitable?  There are some studies that say it's because we do not fuel our bodies with the right octane. There's not enough building blocks (ie. protein) for repair, and so slippery slope to decay and decline.  And yea, that gaunt look is because we somehow lost collagen along the way, so lose a little weight, everything sags.

Something you guys won't want to talk about (but maybe if there's any ladies still tuned in) is decline in hormones, as well.  I've worked with a hormone doc for 20 years, not just to replace female hormones, but also testosterone, and a few years back HGH.  All of that is based upon labs, ranges, scales... but also a sense of well being.  I simply wouldn't be who I am today without close attention to diet and hormones.  You guys do go through your 'andropause'... but maybe ya'll are so healthy and happy you haven't noticed.  

I love your comment about water.  I have thought the same thing!  For some reason, drinking water throughout the day is difficult.  (And yea... I have a hemp/whey combo I like, too!)  Thanks for sharing.

A bit frustrated today... but realized that this is why I opened this thread.  

I saw my Kaiser doc today on a routine visit.  

She spent the first 10 minutes reviewing my need for flu, pneumonia and tetanus shots. And mammogram, although she wasn’t sure how long since my last one—take another one anyway. And “Take some Lipitor, take some blood pressure medication, take some NyQuil, Motrin and cough medicine.” (“But I’m not coughing!”) She’s checking to see if I have been picking up these prescriptions... my cholesterol is perfect, so is everything else... so NO, I won't be taking those meds.

Then we went to the lecture on “You’re getting old, and should be slowing down! Lori, I see patients drop dead every day! You can't do what you used to!  There’s no way to prevent old age.”

So she also wanted to recommend to me a Seniors' Fall Prevention class. "Older people cannot afford to fall and break a hip."  I asked her “Is that on top rope or lead climbing?” When she realized I was rock climbing she ended the appointment.

So, I guess we are writing our own rules from here on out.  Maybe, blissfully, there are no rules.  

I think you just got the wrong PCP. Can you switch? Sometimes you can look up doctors online and see their hobbies and activities (maybe even on the Kaiser webpage), which may give you a clue about who will understand yours.

Lori Milas wrote: A bit frustrated today... but realized that this is why I opened this thread.  

I saw my Kaiser doc today on a routine visit.  

She spent the first 10 minutes reviewing my need for flu, pneumonia and tetanus shots. And mammogram, although she wasn’t sure how long since my last one—take another one anyway. And “Take some Lipitor, take some blood pressure medication, take some NyQuil, Motrin and cough medicine.” (“But I’m not coughing!”) She’s checking to see if I have been picking up these prescriptions... my cholesterol is perfect, so is everything else... so NO, I won't be taking those meds.

Then we went to the lecture on “You’re getting old, and should be slowing down! Lori, I see patients drop dead every day! You can't do what you used to!  There’s no way to prevent old age.”

So she also wanted to recommend to me a Seniors' Fall Prevention class. "Older people cannot afford to fall and break a hip."  I asked her “Is that on top rope or lead climbing?” When she realized I was rock climbing she ended the appointment.

So, I guess we are writing our own rules from here on out.  Maybe, blissfully, there are no rules.  

LOL you got a Doc that saw an age on a chart instead of you.

btw, YGD™.

  

Lori Milas wrote: 

So she also wanted to recommend to me a Seniors' Fall Prevention class. "Older people cannot afford to fall and break a hip."  I asked her “Is that on top rope or lead climbing?” When she realized I was rock climbing she ended the appointment.

Hilarious. 

Uhhh, lessee..

If you have zero recollection of a tetanus shot, yeah, maybe get that one.

How many years of schooling for that? ;-D

Definitely switch docs, maybe the practice you go to also, if it's not possible for them to regard you as an individual. You need a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it doc", especially with the amount of proactive stuff you are doing, and getting and staying educated. Well done, by the way. I admit, I sorta, kinda, hate you some days, when my body doesn't wanna even fold up enough to get my socks on, without grabbing an ankle and hauling, lol! You are really doing very, very well with the climbing. Keep it up, and have fun!

Stay in charge of your health, happiness, and your life. You're awesome, lady!!

Best, OLH

wendy weiss wrote: I think you just got the wrong PCP. Can you switch? Sometimes you can look up doctors online and see their hobbies and activities (maybe even on the Kaiser webpage), which may give you a clue about who will understand yours.

Thanks, Wendy. I have kept my 'outside' doctor... functional medicine doc... and thought I'd stay with Kaiser for the normal stuff.  However, it might be possible to find another doc within Kaiser who at least gets where I'm coming from. 

Old lady H wrote: Uhhh, lessee..

If you have zero recollection of a tetanus shot, yeah, maybe get that one.

How many years of schooling for that? ;-D

Definitely switch docs, maybe the practice you go to also, if it's not possible for them to regard you as an individual. You need a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it doc", especially with the amount of proactive stuff you are doing, and getting and staying educated. Well done, by the way. I admit, I sorta, kinda, hate you some days, when my body doesn't wanna even fold up enough to get my socks on, without grabbing an ankle and hauling, lol! You are really doing very, very well with the climbing. Keep it up, and have fun!

Stay in charge of your health, happiness, and your life. You're awesome, lady!!

Best, OLH

Oh... thanks for that--we ALL are!  I think perhaps the difference is, you've been having fun a long time while I'm just now able to spread my wings a little--and now that I have the opportunity I'm and not going to let age be the limiting factor. I admire you, and those who have been steadily writing, who have obviously been climbing for many years and having such a good time at it.  

Don't forget hormones.  I'm an all natural, organic woman all the way... until it comes to hormones.  There is nothing natural about this part of it... I want them all.  An extra dab of testosterone makes a whole lot of difference on a climbing day.  

Lori Milas wrote:I saw my Kaiser doc today on a routine visit.  

HA! HA!  Over the last few years I've trained my Kaiser doctor.  She isn't condescending anymore after she diagnosed me having a heart attack several years ago, and sent me (Do not pass go, do not collect $200) immediately to the ER.  

I told her, "No way!  Yesterday I backcountry skied (climbed) about 3500' vertical feet between the elevations of 10K and 11K!  If I had a bad heart, I woulda died yesterday."  But the EKG showed an inverted t-wave, "abnormal", so off to the ER.  

There's an enzyme that indicates you've had a heart attack, so they took some blood and I was on this cardiac monitor waiting for the results.  My HR was 52, pulse-ox 98/99%, BP 108/58.  I asked the nurse if heart attack patients have those kind of numbers.  He smiled, "Your not having a heart attack."

Turned out I was eating too much dried fruit (acid reflux gives you a burning sensation in your chest) and that an inverted t-wave means you have a highly developed (thick) heart muscle.  Life-long athletes are "abnormal".  Doh.

Stay away from the statins; they're a scam.  I travel a lot in the winter so the flu shot is fine.  

John Byrnes wrote:
Turned out I was eating too much dried fruit (acid reflux gives you a burning sensation in your chest) and that an inverted t-wave means you have a highly developed (thick) heart muscle.  Life-long athletes are "abnormal".  Doh.

Stay away from the statins; they're a scam.  I travel a lot in the winter so the flu shot is fine.  

Excellent! Statins are a scam unless you eat shit(not literally). My dad has been taking statins for about 10-20 years and what do ya know one of the side affects is neuropathy which he now has. He still trusts his doctors(Kaiser go figure) and is just dealing with neuropathy instead of correcting his diet and eliminating statins. 

DO NOT TRUST YOUR DOCTOR unless they are a friend, they DO NOT spend enough time to get to know their patients, certainly not enough to know their diet and lifestyle. Modern healthcare is a joke until you are sick.

T Roper wrote:DO NOT TRUST YOUR DOCTOR unless they are a friend, they DO NOT spend enough time to get to know their patients, certainly not enough to know their diet and lifestyle. Modern healthcare is a joke until you are sick.

If I shouldn't trust my doctor for medical advice, where should I get it? Mountain Project? 

FrankPS wrote:

If I shouldn't trust my doctor for medical advice, where should I get it? Mountain Project? 

Does your brain work enough to research the internet? Thats what people do now since their doctors dont.

T Roper wrote:

Does your brain work enough to research the internet? Thats what people do now since their doctors dont.

My brain function is quite low, so I will stick with my doctor's advice over the Internet advice.

I think everyone, me included, researches a diagnosis or condition on the Internet. And if I have questions from my Internet research,  I'll ask my doctor.  In the end, I'll put my trust in my doctor over Dr. Internet.

Whoa!  I really don't think this is about whether to trust a doctor.  Kaiser doctors are great (and cheap!) for some things: not so much for others.  Great for an appendix attack, or broken bone... perhaps the most conventional general wellness stuff.  But not for figuring out things like 'chronic fatigue' or esoteric illnesses (like Lyme).  But they have their routine down to a science.  

But speaking of science... that's what I've been looking for.  There is so much science and good information out there now on longevity, anti-aging, strength and endurance after 50.  I know most people don't want it or care.  Many have been blessed with effortless health and this stuff takes too much time.  But most of my female friends are old.  Seriously done with 'youth'.  They are sedentary and like it that way.  I'm watching my bf simply unable to do much... puttering in the garden, lots of naps.  And he's not real interested in change--and assumes this is the way 60 is supposed to be.  

I studied a holistic form of medicine for many years and it was stated that 55-60 (or thereabouts) is the window of time when a person can make decisions about how they will age going forward.  Without vigorous work, it's slippery slope into decline and decay.  WITH focus and real effort, positive heart, mental health and whole body wellness are possible.  I believe this is true.      

One of my regular climbing partners is an MD.  We have some great health related discussions on long road trips.  Doctors are good for some things - pretty out of touch on others.  Generally speaking Doctors are not really trained on "how to be healthy" - or how to increase performance like we all want.  And actually a "fall" class can be pretty good advice.  But not the typical old people one - go to a Judo etc place and have them teach you how to fall - much better.

Chris Rice wrote: One of my regular climbing partners is an MD.  We have some great health related discussions on long road trips.  Doctors are good for some things - pretty out of touch on others.  Generally speaking Doctors are not really trained on "how to be healthy" - or how to increase performance like we all want.  And actually a "fall" class can be pretty good advice.  But not the typical old people one - go to a Judo etc place and have them teach you how to fall - much better.

Chris!  That's GREAT advice!  I am still laughing over my doc recommending a fall prevention class when I have been thinking about having my climbing guide give me a full fall day.  I need to learn to fall!  My one and only fall was indoors... a long pendulum swing off the climbing wall... and I banged my shin hard, then banged it again on the swing back.  Bled everywhere... had to be bandaged and limped for weeks.  
Judo!  That's a great idea!  Is it like Aikido... we did a lot of backward falls, but kinda hard on the kidneys to do so much hitting the mat. 

King Tut wrote:LOL you got a Doc that saw an age on a chart instead of you.

btw, YGD™.

  

I'm getting the impression my friend got the same treatment from her ortho doc. She has a knee grinding bone on bone and they think just postponing the knee replacement is the right thing to do. She's 51. Why put up with chronic pain that will never get better when you could actually get back to being active? 

Tim Stich wrote:

I'm getting the impression my friend got the same treatment from her ortho doc. She has a knee grinding bone on bone and they think just postponing the knee replacement is the right thing to do. She's 51. Why put up with chronic pain that will never get better when you could actually get back to being active? 

There is an ageism that seems subtle.  I saw it with my mom as she turned 80.  If she had a serious ache or pain (almost never) doctors told her it was just her getting old.  Routine lab work stopped. And as she started to get multiple basal skin cancers, they did not give her the 'expensive' medicine that would have healed her skin--they just burned them off, one after the other.  She was too old. She lived to be 102, a very  proud and very healthy woman... but she was no longer youthful and no longer someone to contend with.  She was constantly dismissed.  I felt that way yesterday at Kaiser. 

There's an old saying, though I forget where I first heard it, that goes like this:

if you want to live to eighty then don't smoke, exercise and eat right; if you want to live to a hundred then get better parents...

 
I suspect there's some sort of parallel to that for climbing and there's always the time-tested 'use it or lose it' which has worked for me for forty-four years.