Cams Fluttering?

Tim Meehan wrote: Nice list Eli. I'll add:

7. Crack is flaring, placement not ideal.

Crack is flaring, place a Totem, problem solved

adam Happensack wrote:

the gate opening happens most frequent on solid gate carabiners. when they impact rock, the weight of the gate moves around resulting in open carabiners. wire gates were invented to solve this issue. and also just to be lighter :] 

What makes you say that's why they were invented?

Reading [1] it sounds like gate flutter reduction was incidental.

[1] blackdiamondequipment.com/e…

“There is so much expertise and literature on these points.  Here is a very simple expansion”

Believe me: I’ve read more about this than you, child.

Post science here. It’s absolutely not simple or clear.

Hey Teece, I think you may have taken my post the wrong way. I got the impression you were asking people for an expansion on those three statements based on their own encounters with those three conditions. The “simple” in my reply was not meant to refer to the subject, or your understanding, but to the simplified response I was planning to give, in light of how complex the subject is.
Take care, Phyl

You could die tomorrow from two pulled cams.

Yes, you!

Post your responses with that humility, ok?

Everett wrote:

Are the current screamers avoiding the lightning strike due to the vertical tacking?

Yes, it's smooth, continuous vertical seams tearing vs the rat-tat-tat machine gun sound of an Air Voyager bar tacks going off and the whole rig abruptly 'bouncing' between each bar tack. We went through over a dozen of them taking falls on one climb at Crow Hill and nothing ever unclipped on us so they worked for us as advertised. I still sometimes use a couple of decades-old ones in my rope soloing anchors.

r m wrote:

What makes you say that's why they were invented?

Reading [1] it sounds like gate flutter reduction was incidental.

[1] blackdiamondequipment.com/e…

touche, ill be sure to learn better in the future :D

Kirtis Courkamp wrote: I heard about cam lobe fluttering once form an amga instructor. He said there was a slow-mo video of cams lobes catching a fall some where on the internet I looked for it but never found it. He describes the cam lobes actually bonce kinda back and forth more than you think as the rock kinda breaks/gets pulverized around the lobes a bit in the event of a big fall. He said the camming action is more violent than you think and its not just like a straight pull. I'm sure anyone that's taken a big ride or two has noticed the pulverized rock dust around there cam after a big whip even in granite I have seen some signs of pulverization.  

If you get down to the sub-atomic level everything is pretty much fluttering all the time.

adam Happensack wrote:

touche, ill be sure to learn better in the future :D

:D

At some point in my life, I realised that a lot of what people have to say with respect to cause and effect is fictional. Often one takes a few facts, say, the typical wiregate is more resistant to gate flutter than the typical solid gate, and turn it into a story...Wiregates were invented to solve the gate flutter (and weight) problem.

IMHO on MP we should all endeavour in our speech to be careful to not pass off an opinion, guess or intuition, as a fact. I fuck this up sometimes and by all means, call me out on it when I do!

(I don't really know why they were invented, one would have to ask the inventor. It sounds like they were just experimenting with a design they saw in another field - what advantages they were hoping to find who can say other than said inventor.)

r m wrote:

:D

At some point in my life, I realised that a lot of what people have to say with respect to cause and effect is fictional. Often one takes a few facts, say, the typical wiregate is more resistant to gate flutter than the typical solid gate, and turn it into a story...Wiregates were invented to solve the gate flutter (and weight) problem.

IMHO on MP we should all endeavour in our speech to be careful to not pass off an opinion, guess or intuition, as a fact. I fuck this up sometimes and by all means, call me out on it when I do!

(I don't really know why they were invented, one would have to ask the inventor. It sounds like they were just experimenting with a design they saw in another field - what advantages they were hoping to find who can say other than said inventor.)

There's a terrific story about the creation of the first wiregate carabiners on the BD website. Check it out HERE

r m wrote:

:D

At some point in my life, I realised that a lot of what people have to say with respect to cause and effect is fictional. Often one takes a few facts, say, the typical wiregate is more resistant to gate flutter than the typical solid gate, and turn it into a story...Wiregates were invented to solve the gate flutter (and weight) problem.

IMHO on MP we should all endeavour in our speech to be careful to not pass off an opinion, guess or intuition, as a fact. I fuck this up sometimes and by all means, call me out on it when I do!

(I don't really know why they were invented, one would have to ask the inventor. It sounds like they were just experimenting with a design they saw in another field - what advantages they were hoping to find who can say other than said inventor.)

yeah i hear that, shoot i have a problem regurgitating stuff that i learn through the grapevine without checking the facts. and so my lack of fact checking is probably how most people fuck stuff up too haha!!

Kirtis Courkamp wrote: I heard about cam lobe fluttering once form an amga instructor. He said there was a slow-mo video of cams lobes catching a fall some where on the internet I looked for it but never found it. He describes the cam lobes actually bonce kinda back and forth more than you think as the rock kinda breaks/gets pulverized around the lobes a bit in the event of a big fall. He said the camming action is more violent than you think and its not just like a straight pull. I'm sure anyone that's taken a big ride or two has noticed the pulverized rock dust around there cam after a big whip even in granite I have seen some signs of pulverization.  

This might be the video in question: https://vimeo.com/169105191

Xam wrote:

This might be the video in question: https://vimeo.com/169105191

If that video is the "evidence" of cams fluttering, we need to talk about Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster.

Gunkiemike wrote:

If that video is the "evidence" of cams fluttering, we need to talk about Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster.

Didn't say it was evidence.  Just said I think it is the video being referred to above.