BD Ultralight C4 now $130?

Wondering why the big price jump? I was thinking of starting to switch to Friends anyhow...

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/climbing-cams-stoppers-nuts-hexes/camalot-ultralight-BD262164_cfg.html

not sure what link you're on.

#4's are $129.95

The #4 has always been 130. Smaller sizes are cheaper. The site reflects that, try choosing a smaller size, the price will change. Just worked for me.  

The new Wild Country cams are subtly better in every category anyways.

Ah I guess Backcountry had their pricing wrong - all sizes were $130 - yikes

The weird pricing also works in your favor for the regular c4's. Just bought a #5 for $74

https://www.backcountry.com/black-diamond-camalot-c4s?skid=BLD0839-S04-ONSI&ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6YmxhY2sgZGlhbW9uZCBjNCAjNToxOjE6YmxhY2sgZGlhbW9uZCBjNCAjNQ==

Ryan Marsters wrote:

The new Wild Country cams are subtly better in every category anyways.

As someone with no experience with wild country, I ask why?

The weird pricing also works in your favor for the regular c4's. Just bought a #5 for $74

https://www.backcountry.com/black-diamond-camalot-c4s?skid=BLD0839-S04-ONSI&ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6YmxhY2sgZGlhbW9uZCBjNCAjNToxOjE6YmxhY2sgZGlhbW9uZCBjNCAjNQ==

Thanks Matthew for the tip! Just grabbed one myself! 

Ryan Marsters wrote:

The new Wild Country cams are subtly better in every category anyways.

Elaborate? I've heard otherwise.

backcountry.com  has them all @ $130

https://www.backcountry.com/black-diamond-camalot-ultralight?skid=BLD00HZ-S04GRAY-ONESIZ&ti=UExQIENhdDpDYW1taW5nIERldmljZXM6MToxMzpiYy1jYW1taW5nLWRldmljZXM=

But BD still has different prices according to size

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_CA/climbing-cams-stoppers-nuts-hexes/camalot-ultralight-BD262164_cfg.html

Matthew Derrell Williams wrote:

The weird pricing also works in your favor for the regular c4's. Just bought a #5 for $74

https://www.backcountry.com/black-diamond-camalot-c4s?skid=BLD0839-S04-ONSI&ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6YmxhY2sgZGlhbW9uZCBjNCAjNToxOjE6YmxhY2sgZGlhbW9uZCBjNCAjNQ==

Worked for me with the #5. 

Matthew Derrell Williams wrote:

The weird pricing also works in your favor for the regular c4's. Just bought a #5 for $74

https://www.backcountry.com/black-diamond-camalot-c4s?skid=BLD0839-S04-ONSI&ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6YmxhY2sgZGlhbW9uZCBjNCAjNToxOjE6YmxhY2sgZGlhbW9uZCBjNCAjNQ==

also just picked one up! thanks... only 7 left in there stock

Grabbed a #5 and scored an extra 15% off as a "new customer"...even though I'm not.  $63.71

SteveSly wrote:

Elaborate? I've heard otherwise.

What negative things have you heard?  They are lighter, the build quality is at least as good, they have an extendable sling (which you don't have to use if you don't want to ), and the expansion ranges are essentially the same.  What's left to be desired?

B Owens wrote:

What negative things have you heard?  They are lighter, the build quality is at least as good, they have an extendable sling (which you don't have to use if you don't want to ), and the expansion ranges are essentially the same.  What's left to be desired?

Mostly build quality issues. Heard the springs got sticky fast and the trigger wires were really fragile, even with gentle use.

Alas, this is the struggle...all the evidence is anecdotal, and I'm unsure whether enough people even own them to build consensus. They look great, I just don't want to be a guinea pig.

BD also intentionally builds more wiggle room in their cams so they don't stick or gum up nearly as easily. 

I own both BD and WC in the BD #3 and 4 sizes. My observations:

-WC 3 has more tension in the spring and is harder to pull, while the WC 4 has comparable tension to the BD 4

-Wider, non-anodized lobes on the WC. Some people say it's a gimmick, but it genuinely seems to stick better to the rock

-My WC 3 did start to get sticky within 3 months of comparable use compared to BD 3 which is fine

-Expansion range is slightly greater in the BD which can make a small, but noticeable difference

-Haven't owned both long enough to test durability, but I think WC did tests on their friends and found the extended sling tweaks the thumb loop at forces of just 5 kN

FWIW I prefer the WC but am happy to have both

Also, thanks to the above for the heads up on backcountry!

SteveSly wrote:

Mostly build quality issues. Heard the springs got sticky fast and the trigger wires were really fragile, even with gentle use.

Alas, this is the struggle...all the evidence is anecdotal, and I'm unsure whether enough people even own them to build consensus. They look great, I just don't want to be a guinea pig.

I'm no pro and certainly don't have the experience with the new friends that others do, but I do own the full range of Wild Country New Friends and can offer my experience with them.  

I've had them for around 6 months at this point, and I've probably climbed 30 to 50 pitches with them.  Climbed mostly on granite, but some sandstone.  I have experienced none of the issues above.  The springs are still responsive and smooth.  The trigger wires are strong and cause no concerns.  I've cleaned them once (after a sandstone multi-pitch), although that wasn't strictly necessary.

They feel very well made and I have no concerns.  I would buy them again in a second and definitely recommend them.  Camalots are great cams, but New Friends are lighter, and I personally really appreciate the doubled sling.  

B Owens wrote:

I'm no pro and certainly don't have the experience with the new friends that others do, but I do own the full range of Wild Country New Friends and can offer my experience with them.  

I've had them for around 6 months at this point, and I've probably climbed 30 to 50 pitches with them.  Climbed mostly on granite, but some sandstone.  I have experienced none of the issues above.  The springs are still responsive and smooth.  The trigger wires are strong and cause no concerns.  I've cleaned them once (after a sandstone multi-pitch), although that wasn't strictly necessary.

They feel very well made and I have no concerns.  I would buy them again in a second and definitely recommend them.  Camalots are great cams, but New Friends are lighter, and I personally really appreciate the doubled sling.  

Thanks for the mini-review -- can you speak to the above noted issue with the thumb loop kinking with loading the extended sling?

Peter Yang wrote:

I own both BD and WC in the BD #3 and 4 sizes. My observations:

-WC 3 has more tension in the spring and is harder to pull, while the WC 4 has comparable tension to the BD 4

-Wider, non-anodized lobes on the WC. Some people say it's a gimmick, but it genuinely seems to stick better to the rock

-My WC 3 did start to get sticky within 3 months of comparable use compared to BD 3 which is fine

-Expansion range is slightly greater in the BD which can make a small, but noticeable difference

-Haven't owned both long enough to test durability, but I think WC did tests on their friends and found the extended sling tweaks the thumb loop at forces of just 5 kN

FWIW I prefer the WC but am happy to have both

Also, thanks to the above for the heads up on backcountry!

I've taken a small fall onto my #1 Friend and the thumb loop was fine.  I don't know what forces were generated (there was probably around 20 feet of rope out and I fell around 5-8 feet, weighing probably 210lbs loaded), but there were zero issues with the thumb loop.

Has anyone here actually kinked a thumb loop on a new Friend?