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Advice on entry level ropes and draws

Original Post
Amethyst Stever · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2017 · Points: 0

Hi folks! I'm looking to start assembling gear for sport climbing and could use some advice about good entry level quickdraws and ropes. Just for clarification, I'm set on shoes, harness, personal anchor, and anchor setting biners/slings. Not a brand new climber, but my ex-SO had all the gear...

As far as draws, I'm looking at some by Cypher or C.A.M.P.; I like the lower price point, but I want to make sure I'm not sacrificing safety. I also want to see what folks think about length. The ones I'm looking at are all around 11cm. Would it be a good idea to also get some longer ones (18cm or greater)?

For ropes, what should I be looking for in a decent rope for outdoor sport (length, diameter, wet/dry, etc)? 

Thanks in advance!

greggrylls · · Salt Lake City · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 276

Brand on draw doesn’t really matter.  Make sure you like how the caribiner feels. Personally I just get what’s cheap.  I would get 8 regular length 2 long and one alpine extendable draw and that should cover most of your bases.  Rope gets what’s cheap don’t waste money on dry if just being used for cragging. 

Matt Himmelstein · · Orange, CA · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 194

Anything that is made by a major brand will be safe.  Sure, there are recalls from time to time, but the hear is basically all bulletproof.  Now, there are advantages and disadvantages, so it isn't all the same, but it is all safe.

I like the CAMP biners.  I have a set (I'm not sure if they still sell them) that mated the Nano 22 with a larger ropes end biner, but the weight savings are actually minimal.  Just make sure you like how the rope end works in your hand.  The difference in feel on the wall end is minimal since you are clipping into a fixed object.  That said, if you hate the wall end biner, it isn't something you will want to buy, I just doubt you will hate the wall end.  

It can be nice to have mix of lengths, but I doubt there are going to be very many times on a sport route where you are going to wish you had a draw that was 3 inches longer or shorter.  My two main sets are different lengths, and I can't really pinpoint a time on a sport route where I deliberately picked the longer draw.  Now, when I rack them for a trad roue, that is a different story, but not for a sport route.

For a rope, get what you need for where you climb.  If your crag is well established with the vast majority of routes set int eh area of < 60 ropes, get a 60m rope.   But if you climb an area where a 70m will let you string pitches together or do 1 rap instead of 2, invest in the 70m rope.  Get a mid range rope unless you are going to be cranking routes and need every advantage you want.  That means a 9.4 to 9.8 rope.  The super skinny ropes are nice, but there is less assisted braking force with some devices, and they can be more money and less durable.  A bicolor is nice, but really any way to mark the middle of the rope is fine.  I picked up a Blue Water (I think) ink to mark my rope, and it worked fine.  It can be a pain to find the middle mark, but not a huge pain.  Dry treatment is essential if you are going to use the rope where it may get wet, but it is also handy to keep it cleaner.

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 423

For your only rope, you'll want a rope you can use for everything, including top roping and climbs with sharp rock where you'd want to keep a thin, expensive rope far away. All this leads me to say that durability is probably the biggest concern for your first rope. You can always save up to buy a lighter rope and continue to use the heavy rope for top rope and climbs where rope damage is likely, but if your thin light rope gets damaged, you're out of luck until you can afford a new one.

The Mammut Gravity (10.2mm) is probably your best bet. My first rope (now my beater rope) is a 9.8mm Mammut Eternity Classic that is still going strong after two years, and I put that thing through hell. I think that would also be a good choice, but the extra 0.4mm on the Mammut Gravity will make that rope even more durable. I've seen friends burn through BD and Petzl ropes in much shorter time.

I wouldn't spend the money on dry treatment or bicolor. Those are features for a nicer rope later that will never be used for TR. I might shell out for 70m--definitely if you're in an area where 70m climbs exist--but I'd avoid one if you're going to be doing a lot of long approaches.

I do highly recommend getting a Mammut rope--I've watched a lot of people burn through cheaper ropes while mine is still going strong, and I don't think you're saving money in the long run by going cheap on a similar-thickness rope from BD or Petzl. The Mammut ropes also handle very nicely.

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 423

For draws, I'd focus on getting good rope-side biners. I like the bent-gate biners for this. There's no reason to go cheap here either, because the biners will last you a very long time. You'll save money in the long run if you buy biners that you won't replace later out of frustration. Easy clipping does affect my send.

Bolt side biners are less important because you're clipping to a fixed bolt, but they will last for a very long time, so having one that feels nice in your hand is worth something.

The dogbone is less important because it will wear out faster than the rest of the quickdraw, and can be replaced inexpensively. That said, I like stiff, short dogbones for sport.

I like Petzl's quickdraws. I bought 17cm Petzl Spirit Express quickdraws when I first started. I love the Spirit carabiners and I like the stiffness of the Express dogbone, but I wish I had gone shorter on the dogbones (at least for most of my draws). Since then, however, I've climbed with the Djinn Axess quickdraws, which are a whole lot cheaper, and that's probably what I'd go for if I were buying my first quickdraws now. The Djinn carabiners are cheaper but I think they're just as good as the Spirit Carabiners, and you can upgrade to the Express dogbones when the Axess dogbones wear out.

There are good options from other brands. BD Positrons have good carabiners and you can replace the dogbones with stiffer ones when they wear out, similar to the Djinn Axess. I haven't climbed with them so I can't say for sure, but the Trango Reacts and the Mad Rock Bottlenose carabiners seem to have similar designs to the Spirit Express (I'll leave it up to you to research the weight differences if you care about them).

You might find cheaper carabiners that feel good in your hand, but whatever you do, I'd avoid any snag-nosed carabiners. Those are annoying on either end of the draw.

Christopher Smith · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 0

I will second the recommendation of the Mammut 10.2mm unless you have a device that prefers smaller ropes.  If you want something more like a 9.8 Sterling makes some really affordable ropes in that size and I think the BD ones are also very reasonably priced.  Of course all of these options are non-dry ropes but likely you aren't doing alpine or ice climbing or anything so you shouldn't need them.  Just remember to at the very least invest in a cheap tarp if not a rope bag with tarp built in to protect your investment.  No sense in getting ropes dirtier quicker when it's not that expensive to avoid.  That said they will still get dirty eventually even with care to keep them on a tarp so make sure to wash them every once in a while, dirt is easily the biggest thing that kills ropes in most cases.

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 423
Christopher Smith wrote:

Just remember to at the very least invest in a cheap tarp if not a rope bag with tarp built in to protect your investment.  No sense in getting ropes dirtier quicker when it's not that expensive to avoid.  That said they will still get dirty eventually even with care to keep them on a tarp so make sure to wash them every once in a while, dirt is easily the biggest thing that kills ropes in most cases.

I second this. I use a cheapo REI duffel for this and while it isn't as comfortable to carry or easy to pack rope into as the rope bag I got for my 70m, it gets the job done.

Mike wand · · San Marcos · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 30

Djinn Axess quickdraws are best for the price.  Any 9.8 70 meter rope and any brand of lockers will do. No need for a PAS, get a double leanth nilon sling. Your partners can fill the gaps. Have fun. 

Jeff Luton · · It's complicated · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 5

Have a few beers, walk into REI and let your credit card do the talking. Climbing is an inherently dangerous sport and there's no need to skimp on a few things you might need

Ivan Cross · · Flagstaff · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 198

They're all the same. Get a nice color that's all that matters   

aikibujin · · Castle Rock, CO · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 300
Christopher Smith wrote:

Just remember to at the very least invest in a cheap tarp if not a rope bag with tarp built in to protect your investment.  No sense in getting ropes dirtier quicker when it's not that expensive to avoid.

Not only will a rope bag/tarp keep your rope cleaner, it may even keep you safer. I always tie the ends of my rope to the rope tarp/bag before I roll it up and pack it. So not only I don't have to flake the rope every time I unpack it, it also ensures that I always have a knot tied at the end of my rope. I use a double overhand for the bottom end and a simple overhand for the top end to make it easier to tell which end is which.

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 423
Jeff Luton wrote:

Have a few beers, walk into REI and let your credit card do the talking. Climbing is an inherently dangerous sport and there's no need to skimp on a few things you might need

A few things, you say?

PatMas · · Tulsa, OK · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 40

For sport draws get what feels best in your hand. Solid gate on the bolt side will be easier to clean. Don’t be super worried about weight, ease of clipping will be most important.

Hard to beat a non dry mammut rope in 9.5 (infinity) 9.8 (eternity) or 10.0 (galaxy). I wouldn’t go any bigger or smaller for a first rope. 

Jeff Luton · · It's complicated · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 5
David Kerkeslager wrote:

A few things, you say?

A few alpines, and if the op is in an old school bolted area with super long run outs, I'd even say a set of nuts. Where I'm at there are potential ground falls between the 3rd-4th bolt just because of spacing, yet placements are to be found. And if you really want to get wacky I'd even dare say a....helmet 

NathanC · · Ogden, UT · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 15

I started with the mad rock draws that run ~$7 a piece in a set of 6 (catch 'em on sale).  Great way to acquire 'biners for misc things as the dogbones wear out.  By that time you should have a sense of what draws you like, and can upgrade while phasing out the original set.

For ropes, the mammut ropes are very nice.  I'm also a fan of sterling ropes.  If rappelling or longer routes are on your agenda, bi-pattern is a nice touch.  60m will do most, 70m will do almost all, and 80m will cover everything out there...but more rope length means more coiling and more weight.  Dry treatment is a must have for alpine ropes, but of limited benefit in the sport realm.  Second (third, fourth...?) the rope bag idea.  If used is an option for you, I do have a 60m 9.8 sterling velocity bi-pat I need to unload.

Suburban Roadside · · Abovetraffic on Hudson · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 2,419
NathanC wrote:

I started with the mad rock draws that run ~$7 a piece in a set of 6 (catch 'em on sale).  Great way to acquire 'biners for misc things as the dogbones wear out.  By that time you should have a sense of what draws you like, and can upgrade while phasing out the original set.

For ropes, the mammut ropes are very nice.  I'm also a fan of sterling ropes.  If rappelling or longer routes are on your agenda, bi-pattern is a nice touch.  60m will do most, 70m will do almost all, and 80m will cover everything out there...but more rope length means more coiling and more weight.  Dry treatment is a must have for alpine ropes, but of limited benefit in the sport realm.  Second (third, fourth...?) the rope bag idea.

 If used is an option for you, I do have a 60m 9.8 sterling velocity bi-pat I need to unload.

The way to maximize your climbing dollars, (save cash for travel) is to buy used everything 1st,  Then when you shred that stuff, it won't hurt as much.  Work with-in with your learning curve, you will have lots of experiences where you will ( work,) over-use your 1st gear.  When you learn by doing  -  start to buy New Gear.   Replace your whole kit?  only after , 5+ years, unless obvious damage is clearly evident or a serious episode has occurred.  

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Mountain Rookie · 8 mins ago · 

:

The way to maximize your climbing dollars, (save cash for travel) is to buy used everything 1st,  

And risk getting a rope that was stored around car batteries and biners that have been dropped with invisible cracks to save a few bucks... Maybe the chances of getting that unlucky are slim, but how much is your peace of mind worth?

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Rookie,.

Oh please,  When you buy new  You are already being sold & buying disposable crap, and have no grasp/idea how much redundancy is built into that. Go a head spend your trust fund, It will all be garbage in 5 years of weekends any way,   I'm not going to bump this, but for real? Go find the evidence of the 2 times that a rope has BROKEN, Not Cut -  IN 40 years!, and yes 'beiners break, mostly  due to user error, It Is a dangerous life, ? Needle point can cause Tetanus . . .

More BS, From this place, In the rest of the world they Duct tape over Core shots and climb way hard overhanging routes, taking falls in the Alpine and rapping from stuck knots  .  .  . It's always the blind leading the non-thinking.around here. I doubt very much that anywhere near a factor fall is going to be in play, Sport Climbing & Top Roping  .  .  .

So much hand wringing , You're Gonna Die, But most likely  not from a rope that was stored with acid or diesel fuel, I have read the threads on corruption of a rope stored in a car trunk, a scary proposition, but look into who you buy from, see if there is any-one that seems to be selling anything more than 4 years old

So then, Frank, Explain your thinking behind a whole forum section devoted to under-cutting your safety concerns ? 

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/103989416/for-sale-for-free-want-to-buy

Mountain Rookie · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2017 · Points: 0
Michael Schneider wrote:

The way to maximize your climbing dollars, (save cash for travel) is to buy used everything 1st,  

And risk getting a rope that was stored around car batteries and biners that have been dropped with invisible cracks to save a few bucks... Maybe the chances of getting that unlucky are slim, but how much is your peace of mind worth?

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
Mountain Rookie wrote:

And risk getting a rope that was stored around car batteries and biners that have been dropped with invisible cracks to save a few bucks... Maybe the chances of getting that unlucky are slim, but how much is your peace of mind worth?

Exactly. Don't buy used ropes, slings or harnesses.

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 423
Mountain Rookie wrote:

And risk getting a rope that was stored around car batteries and biners that have been dropped with invisible cracks to save a few bucks... Maybe the chances of getting that unlucky are slim, but how much is your peace of mind worth?

Ropes, fine. But microfractures in biners are a myth.

Al Pine · · Shawangadang, NY · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 0

+1 for any 70m mammut rope. Personally, I think ropes in the in the 9.5-9.8 range are the best all arounders. 10mil ropes can be cumbersome to handle and may not feed that easily through certain belay devices. Dry treatments are worth the $. Inevitably you'll get caught in the rain mid pitch unless you climb in an arid climate.

Matt Robinson · · Saint Petersburg, FL · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 15

Keylock/shrouded wire biners (think bd hoodwire) on the bolt side make cleaning so much easier and help prevent nose snagging to keep things safer

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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