True Dry Tool Routes in the Adirondacks?

Jim Lawyer wrote:

I see things a little differently. I don't think Don "hates bolts", as he's surely placed his share. In my experience, he doesn't hate drytool routes as previously stated; he and I have climbed pure drytool routes together, and he's quite good at it. My impression is that he definitely doesn't approve of "convenience anchors", and, like almost everybody, doesn't want our summer rock routes to be subjected to winter crampon and ice tool damage. He has chosen to omit many pure drytooling routes from Blue Lines 2 for whatever reason, maybe because they aren't "blue"? Don quotes Joe Szot in Blue Lines 2 as having said "If there's no f%#$ing ice, then it's not a f%#$ing ice route." Rather self evident, actually. I remember Szot as a gifted drytooler, and many of his FAs -- and there are many -- require extensive drytooling. In the end, Don's route selection in Blue Lines 2 is inconsistent, as he included some pure drytool routes and excluded others.

I don't think it's appropriate to label Don as a "hater" or having extreme views on these two issues. In my view, he has done more for the region than anyone I know, and I continue to admire, appreciate, and learn from his stewardship.

Truth!

This thread is great!

Upper Devils Kitchen offers some great routes in the Catskills.  Erosion M8 and Loosifer M9 were great lines that are not on MP but are gems for the area. Ryan Stefuik from Big Mountain Guides would be a great source!

Happy hunting for mixed and DT routes.  I would be psyched to see the North East to grow in the sport!

Tyler Kempney wrote:

This thread is great!

Upper Devils Kitchen offers some great routes in the Catskills.  Erosion M8 and Loosifer M9 were great lines that are not on MP but are gems for the area. Ryan Stefuik from Big Mountain Guides would be a great source!

Happy hunting for mixed and DT routes.  I would be psyched to see the North East to grow in the sport!

That's Bigfoot Mountain Guides

Will Roth wrote:

Come On Pilgrim is on the very right side of Alcatraz and Notched In Stone is right of Alcatraz. Bobo The Circus Idiot is on the right side of the Aid Wall on Moss cliff. All are certainly not pure dry tool 

routes. Although they all have a lot of dry tooling, they also all involve a fair amount of ice climbing. Most, but not all the ice, is on the thin/technical side.    

Wiil,

 Is there  mixed,climbing on a steep side of ?? Is It ST Regis? - 

 bolted with old SMC "danger hangers"  the climbing there was stiff for the time, and there was a big Rock near the river? that I climbed in front of a Slack jawed Al Joelly, and Rich Leswing. I Led Both of them half way up numerous climbs. 

In 1978 I was there in Saranac Lake, as were some other hard climbing Dead heads.  As I remember it, the private school teacher wrote us off, and would not recognize any of the routes put up by the Students of life , from Paul Smiths. Sadly, the tripping clowns that we were, we rarely, if ever, wrote anything down, many 5.10 & .11s were climbed before the arrival of Pat Purcelle(sp)Et Al. . .

That reads  like it was written by a bitter old man, maybe it was.   - ' Is',  Is hard,  yet, I accept that that is what it is

STROKE, FOR NOLAN HUTHER??

I have spent a lot of time coming to grips with the very few number of days that I could have spent climbing new ground. I was up north for 2.5 /3 years so 58 days of climbing not more than that? seems about right given that I went, to Shows & to class some of the time;-7

Michael Schneider wrote:

In 1978 I was there in Saranac Lake, as were some other hard climbing Dead heads, I remember that the private school teacher wrote us off, and would not recognize any of the routes put up by the Students of life , from Paul Smiths, tripping clowns that we were we rarely, if ever, wrote anything down, And may 5.10 & .11s were climbed before the arrival of Pat Purcelle(sp)

I have spent a lot of time coming to grips with the very few number of days that I could have spent climbing new ground. I was up north for 2.5 years so 58 days of climbing not more than that? seems about right given that I went to class some of the time;-7

Have you ever looked through the guidebook to see if any of the known routes were perhaps climbed previously by your group?

I was hoping to get that written properly but.. No Ive only made very cursory inspection of your amazing Tomes. They are A great addition , and (WE )  I  can not thank you enough for the excellent Guide Books. As to what or when and where I can only guess. I think I have addressed this with you before? Im not looking to change anything I just feel that The Private School teacher was not a true keeper of ALL the lore, or the facts. ( We had the Tom Rosencrans,(sp)  A small green Book, An Ice Climbers Guide To the ADK(?) This is taxing some long Dead'  brain cells,) 

Yes, this conversation is vaguely familiar. I know you're not looking to change anything, but I am always looking to peel the onion. I love discovering history! Let me know if you think of anything more concrete (like an old shoebox of photos!).

Michael Schneider wrote:

Wiil,

 Is there  mixed,climbing on a steep side of ?? Is It ST Regis? - 

 bolted with old SMC "danger hangers"  the climbing there was stiff for the time, and there was a big Rock near the river? that I climbed in front of a Slack jawed Al Joelly, and Rich Leswing. I Led Both of them half way up numerous climbs. 

In 1978 I was there in Saranac Lake, as were some other hard climbing Dead heads.  As I remember it, the private school teacher wrote us off, and would not recognize any of the routes put up by the Students of life , from Paul Smiths. Sadly, the tripping clowns that we were, we rarely, if ever, wrote anything down, many 5.10 & .11s were climbed before the arrival of Pat Purcelle(sp)Et Al. . .

That reads  like it was written by a bitter old man, maybe it was.   - ' Is',  Is hard,  yet, I accept that that is what it is

STROKE, FOR NOLAN HUTHER??

I have spent a lot of time coming to grips with the very few number of days that I could have spent climbing new ground. I was up north for 2.5 /3 years so 58 days of climbing not more than that? seems about right given that I went, to Shows & to class some of the time;-7

I haven't climbed ice or rock on St. Regis Mt so I can't comment on that location.

Possibly your thinking of Baker Mt, with the trailhead right in Saranac Lake? Baker Mt. does have a cliff on it that many Paul Smiths students climbed at during that time period. There is a route on that cliff, reportedly put up by Purcell in 1990, called Saranac Saber 5.10c. This route still has SMC hangers on it. It is on a steeper section of the cliff and very close to a location that ice forms. Could this possibly be what you are talking about? 

As for the "big rock near the river" I'm not sure. If it's below the cliff on Baker Mt, it is now on private land. If it's below St Regis, I have no idea.

Will Roth wrote:

I haven't climbed ice or rock on St. Regis Mt so I can't comment on that location.

Possibly your thinking of Baker Mt, with the trailhead right in Saranac Lake? Baker Mt. does have a cliff on it that many Paul Smiths students climbed at during that time period. There is a route on that cliff, reportedly put up by Purcell in 1990, called Saranac Saber 5.10c. This route still has SMC hangers on it. It is on a steeper section of the cliff and very close to a location that ice forms. Could this possibly be what you are talking about? 

As for the "big rock near the river" I'm not sure. If it's below the cliff on Baker Mt, it is now on private land. If it's below St Regis, I have no idea.

Yes,Baker Mt, thats it!   . .  there was a drool there that I (& AJolley?) did in the 80s I think.

 NO Way Is the climb that is bolted with SMC hangers A PAT( donny's Boy) climb, it went up in, '79 and was retro-bolted in 1980-81, Schneider/ Leswing

This is certainly great history to hear about. Just to be clear, the climb I'm talking about is at Baker Mt called Saranac Saber 5.10C.  Its a rock route, not a mixed ice climb and it follows 4 bolts up an arete. This is certainly the equivalent of what is considered a sport climb in these parts. If this is the climb that you are talking about, it certainly would have been ahead of its time. Especially given the FA date, area and way its protected. The Adirondack Rock guide book has a very good topo of the climbs location.