New trad climber...problems.

slim wrote:

one of the (many) problems with this though is, like somebody mentioned above, that this gives you a false sense of security that the piece is going to stay in place in the event of a fall.  you would be a lot better off trying to place stoppers so that they are keyed in and naturally can deal with outward forces.  either that, or using slings to guide the rope better.  if you are just tugging them you will probably be in for a big surprise.  that, and your partner is going to stop climbing with you.

The problem is a multidirectional first piece, without that all your gear is suspect for zippering. I place the dmm wall nuts and offsets and I extend every nut with a sling I rarely need a nut tool to retrieve any of them. Use a multidirectional first piece extend your nuts, don’t yank on them so much you fly off the mountain. 

Brian, it's a good practice to make your first piece of gear is multidirectional - it will hold against a pull in any direction and will help prevent the dreaded zipper effect on the rest of your gear due to your belayer's location. Also place directional pieces that will protect traverses and roofs, since these features will have the same consequences. Also, I *highly* recommend going out with a guide who can give you some feedback on your system. It's the cheapest (and most fun!) life insurance policy you can pay for. You can also try easy aid climbing (perhaps on top rope first, progressing to using the top rope as a backup in case your pro fails). This is a good way to see how well your placements hold up. Keep at it - the system is pretty complicated and it can be tough to judge angles and forces on your gear. Be sure to keep the grades really low - there should be no risk of falling so you can concentrate on only your gear and you can downclimb if things go sideways. With careful practice, you should be able to get the hang of it.

Tim Meehan wrote:

I like this approach: https://andy-kirkpatrick.com/cragmanship/view/nuts_that_stay_put

Great Read!

Brian:  notice your first piece is a nut?

look up "reverse zipper" and "multidirectional piece of protection.  

The first piece needs to be multidirectional to prevent a reverse zipper.  A properly placed cam or two nuts in opposition will prevent this from happening.   

David Kerkeslager wrote:

Are you giving your placements a yank to set them?

climbing friend,

You would not be yanking on my nutz!

I headlock you! crushing squeezing you into submission!