MegaJul Rappelling in Locked Mode?

David Ponak wrote:

No, because what you are describing is the same as with any non assisted locking belay device/tuber.

False proposition. Tube device does not lock. Jul does. Jul locks in one direction. Normally it locks in "feeding slack" direction, reversed it locks in "taking slack" direction.

When using Micro- or Mega- Jul in "reversed" orientation it is hard to take the slack because the device locks. Thus, it is hard to switch from rappeling to ascending the rope — the rappel device will block your attempts to capture your upward progress. It is not only awkward, it is just dangerous, because without proper preliminary training climber could easily lose the control and free fall.

JIC. Moreover, it is awkward to leave (especially haging) rappel station with Jul in "reversed" orientation because transferring your weight from your self-belay tether to the rappel device locks the latter.

You know how to rappel with those?

For sure I do know nothing. Have no experience. Have never touched any single piece of rock climbing equipment. Have never seen any real rock. All my experience has come from YouTube vidz and Internet forums bragging. That is the exact reason why I do know about rock climbing equipment. That is the exact reason why I do have experience with rock climbing equipment. That is the exact reason why I do explain how rock climbing gear design features could affect real life climbing scenarious. Thank you.

Lol... I rapp every time with mine in lock mode, it's really easy to get good at just using your thumb if you..... use it a lot 

I rap with it backwards. I know I can't ascend with it easily like a guide but I choose to do so anyway mostly cause I already own it. I can always ascend with another tactic.

Thanks guys. I'll stick to using my prussic as a backup in the unlocked mode. 

T Bloodstone wrote:

Thanks guys. I'll stick to using my prussic as a backup in the unlocked mode. 

Likewise.

I use a bd rocklock and the jul has always worked great for me. Perhaps you non-lock rap people are still using 10.2 ropes?!??!

Just to add my two cents. A smooth-ish Rappel in lock mode with the Mega Jul with the recommended HMS Strike FG carabiner is doable, but it's not my favorite or the easiest compared to other devices. I bought an Edlerid Pure bent for the lever hole and actually found it far more difficult to rappel using it such that I never use it for that purpose any more. It requires far more energy as pulling it downards doesn't do anything. You also have to push outwards/away from you at the same time. What I found that works for me is to operate the nose loop between my thumb and first finger with one hand, push outwards with it, not up. At the beginning of the rappel the weight of the rope hanging affects how you rappel. I've found that I have to lessen the angle of brake strands through the device to decrease the braking performance to let it slip through the device easier. Generally I have to hold the brake strands close to or at ninety degrees from me (horizontal) to lessen the braking performance. As I get closer to the ground, I bring the brake strands closer to straight down to increase the braking performance as the weight of the ropes lessen. It's even better if you use rappel gloves as then you don't have to worry about the ropes rubbing against the skin of the hand operating the nose loop.

Pavel Burov wrote:

Bad idea. It is virtually impossible to climb up a bit in this mode (e.g. if one misses the next rappel station a bit).

upd. To me it seems the only big concert about Mega-/Micro Juls. Rappeling in this mode is deadly dangerous. Trying to climb up a bit in this mode one could easily lose control and free fall to limiter knots or to the ground (depending on situation).

I backup all of my repels with a prussic so I think you are incorrect 

djh860 wrote:

I backup all of my repels with a prussic

Oh wow!

Pavel Burov wrote:

Have alredy done. Ref. previous messages it this thread.

Yeah, except it actually doesn't make any sense. The Jul works like any tube device in rappel mode. It simply has a carabiner which applies some friction to the rope while doing so. The forces and directions are the exact same. 

What Pavel is saying is correct. Load the megajul backwards for a rappel and it's nearly impossible to pull rope back through to move the device up. I have to hold the device off the biner, it almost takes three hands. On an atc it's very easy.

Chris Blatchley wrote:

What Pavel is saying is correct. Load the megajul backwards for a rappel and it's nearly impossible to pull rope back through to move the device up. I have to hold the device off the biner, it almost takes three hands. On an atc it's very easy.

Yeah, I don't think anyone has disputed that. It does lock up if trying to ascend the rope while it is reversed. However, you can defeat this simply by carrying a second prusik or hollow block, in addition to the standard backup. I have found creative ways to do it without the second autoblock, but having a second is much simpler. 

That said. I have found it super easy to rappel smoothly in its standard mode, even when carrying a pack and large rack. It only took one or two practice rappels to figure it out. Its not that hard people.

Idaho Ian wrote:

I have found it super easy to rappel smoothly in its standard mode, even when carrying a pack and large rack. It only took one or two practice rappels to figure it out. Its not that hard people.

The trick is to wear gloves. Micro- and Mega- Juls are great for rappeling in locking mode if wearing gloves.

Pavel Burov wrote:

False proposition. Tube device does not lock. Jul does. Jul locks in one direction. Normally it locks in "feeding slack" direction, reversed it locks in "taking slack" direction.

When using Micro- or Mega- Jul in "reversed" orientation it is hard to take the slack because the device locks. Thus, it is hard to switch from rappeling to ascending the rope — the rappel device will block your attempts to capture your upward progress. It is not only awkward, it is just dangerous, because without proper preliminary training climber could easily lose the control and free fall.

JIC. Moreover, it is awkward to leave (especially haging) rappel station with Jul in "reversed" orientation because transferring your weight from your self-belay tether to the rappel device locks the latter.

This is 100% true and I'm always amazed when mega jul users on the net say they don't understand this concept. Maybe they don't fully weight their device or are climbing at crags with great stances at every anchor and just haven't had to load it from a semi hanging rap, but I found this flaw immediately.

There are times you have to ascend the rope even on normal rappels, using a mega jul in "open" mode without a friction hitch back up below the device is flat out dangerous. You simply can't ascend the rope without shenanigans, unless you are Ganesha and have four arms. 

That's one of the many reasons I quit using a mega jul two years ago, honestly can't say the device does anything well.

Nick Drake wrote:

honestly can't say the device does anything well.

Personally I've found MicroJul does everything well. Although the learning curve could be a bit too steep for some folks. It is not OK, it is great that people are so different. If we were all the same our nice World would be pretty boring and miserable place to live :)

Pavel Burov wrote:

Personally I've found MicroJul does everything well. Although the learning curve could be a bit too steep for some folks. It is not OK, it is great that people are so different. If we were all the same our nice World would be pretty boring and miserable place to live :)

Micro? Do you climb on half ropes frequently or are you using that on skinny singles?

Even though it's in the stated range I can say with 100% certainty that the mega jul won't lock up on one strand of 8mm mamut half rope.......actually it had less braking force than a non toothed ATC. I also found it was lack luster on a 9.0 sterling nano, but at least on that it didn't leave my partners hand in pain. 

climbing friend,

do not rappel in this mode, no. you will find it nearly impossible to abseil downwards, yes, and if you do make it, your guns they would be quite toasty! - limp and lifeless myahhh - lacking energy and stamina for next climb mmmyahhhhhhh.

Pavel Burov wrote:

The trick is to wear gloves. Micro- and Mega- Juls are great for rappeling in locking mode if wearing gloves.

Why? I haven't worn gloves on most of my rappels with the Megajul, usually on 9 to 9.5mm ropes. I usually wear gloves when I have a lot of weight on rappel, but I want those for any device. I guess if you had supper skinny ropes, sure, but again that would apply to almost all devices. 

Nick Drake wrote:

Micro? Do you climb on half ropes frequently or are you using that on skinny singles?

We use halves (sometimes as twins) mostly.