Bouldering grades at Earth Treks (Golden)

Because I figured I should at least try to train (for a change), I've been going to Earth Treks down in Golden a few times a week.

And after a while I could do their V4s, but there's no way they are equiv to 5.12-.  In fact, I got on an 11b a outside a few days ago where the crux was right off the ground (https://www.mountainproject.com/v/hot-if-youre-not-aka-the-brown-eye-wall/105751339) and I couldn't do it.

So I guess Earth Treks is soft?  Or all gyms are soft?  Or has the V-scale changed since the 90s (when I last was climbing a lot)?

And does anyone have beta on the 11b?  :) :)

Technically "V4" is an equivalent to "12-" but that's obviously a single move set. In my opinion grading on plastic shouldn't be taken seriously compared to grading outside. 

Gym grades are notoriously very soft. Both boulder and route. You can't translate between indoor and outdoor in my experience.

Grades vary from place to place and from gym to outdoors.

For that particular route, I would stick clip the first bolt to work out the moves - I don't really remember the beta exactly, except that there are a couple of ways to do it. I think people have called that first section a "V1," which seems about right when you compare it to other V1s in the flatirons/flagstaff.

Earth Treks has a reputation to have soft grades, even when compared to other gyms in the area. 

Gym grades are generally soft.  But its also true that the equivalency is for single moves.  I'm a V4 climber and can often onsight or flash a V4 outdoors (depending on the area) and virtually always onsight V4s in the gym, but I have never onsighted a 12. 

FWIW, I've always been able to redpoint routes/send boulders in front range harder outside than ANY of the local gyms I've been to (BRC, ET, Evo, Movement, R&J, etc). Sure, some routes in some of the local gyms are easier and in general indoor routes are much easier to OS/flash that outside, but that's to be expected as you can easily see all the holds.

The real issue is indoor climbing just isn't the same as outside climbing. And for the most part, if you think gym grades are soft, IME, you likely just suck at real climbing. This is easily observed when going to a predominantly indoor climbing town: when I climbed at Planet Granite in Sunnyvale one summer, their gym routes were noticeably stiffer than the front range. but talking to those 13+ gym crushers about being able to casually stroll up the Rostrum was, well, borrowing a Chinese proverb, playing guitar to a cow.

I can climb Earth Treks V4 consistently and V5 often, and can't climb local outdoor V1's. And not like, "can't quite make it", I mean like "can't hold the start" or "can hold the start but do zero moves".

Within the gym though, I'd say a solid V4 is comparable to 11c-12a depending on the style.

Related: if anyone can recommend a Colorado outdoor bouldering spot with actually-easy boulders to work on, I'd love to hear about it.

climbing friend,

yes the gym grades they are soft. it is not the rocket science it is the common knowledge. you send v5 there and struggle on v2 for realzies.

climbing friend noah the yetti, the boulders they are not easy, they are azzz harddd asssszzzzz possibbllllle. it is supposed be like slap to face upon waking morning, or swift kick to the nuts. they shall crush your soul, arms and fingers, and after much persistance you shall rise again, emerging stronger and bolder than EVA BEFOR!!!!!!! MYAHHRRRRHHHHH MYAH MYAAAA

I'm in the exact same boat as Noah. I can easily do V5 at ET but often can't even start a V1 outside, and have even had V0s shut me out. I think I've completed a single V2 outside, ever. I'm no boulderer, though.

The Snake Pit in the Garden of the Gods and Big Bend (River Road) outside Moab are the only places I've bouldered where I can actually not get shut out of most "easy" problems. I'm also interested in hearing more opinions on this, though.

^^^,^

Front range bouldering is mega sandbagged in the V0-V4 range. Try Joe's or Roy...

Because of the steepness of the difficulty curve in the "traditional V scale", most gyms have softened the curve so that it meets the "traditional V scale" somewhere around V7. 

Gym climbing is to outdoor climbing, what Duplos are to ceramic sculpture... Bright, chunky, colorful, too large to swallow, safe for all ages. 

If you want to rock climb, go rock climb.

Trycycle wrote:

If you want to rock climb, go rock climb.

It's raining and snowing right now. Nice that there's a gym 3 miles away!

reboot wrote:

FWIW, I've always been able to redpoint routes/send boulders in front range harder outside than ANY of the local gyms I've been to (BRC, ET, Evo, Movement, R&J, etc). Sure, some routes in some of the local gyms are easier and in general indoor routes are much easier to OS/flash that outside, but that's to be expected as you can easily see all the holds.

Well, let's be honest - you climb harder than most people on this site. They don't usually set too many indoor routes at your limit! 

I'm going to chime because I have spent a lot of time at Earth Treks and always really enjoyed the setting there. In a gym, the sequence is just laid out for you, whereas outside you may not even see the best hold in a crux. Bouldering is soft at every gym, and it can definitely be easier to send when you've watched five different people work a problem. I think at lower grades you have to appeal to the new or non-climbers with easier, fun movement to make some variety. Even though there are many different holds for the gym industry, it becomes easy after a few times to know exactly where the "sweet spot" might be on a hold. 

Personally, I think when you hit mid 5.12 (not bouldering) and up is when the grades start to align a lot closer with front range outdoor grades. I climbed basically the same grade depending on style in or outdoors. 

climbing friend,

please you all would continue, there can never be too much mental masturbation about gym gradings plastic climbing rocks, yes>?

John RB wrote:

ratings are SO subjective.

Well, that's the thread right there. 

I boulder a lot at Earth Treks and was super discouraged when I started bouldering outside. I was sending a good number of v6s and one or two v7s at ET, but outdoors in the front range, I've only sent a couple v4s and v3s take a lot of work for me to get. So just go into your outdoor climbing with the mindset that your gym grades are crazy soft and be okay with struggling on "easy" climbs. 

Joe Prescott wrote:

Gym grades are notoriously very soft. Both boulder and route. You can't translate between indoor and outdoor in my experience.

I never understood the logic of making gym grades super soft compared to outside.  No wonder so many gumbies get in over their heads (and injured) the first time they climb real rock.

Cocoapuffs 1000 wrote:

I never understood the logic of making gym grades super soft compared to outside.  No wonder so many gumbies get in over their heads (and injured) the first time they climb real rock.

Because most people that climb V0-4 in the gym never go outside and if you can't see progression you stop going. The profitability sweet spot is here. We're talking membership sales for $100 where the person only shows up 2-4x per month.

I don't know why it is, maybe to give the gym members an ego boost to say they are 5.X climbers? I recently started going to the gym a lot over the past 2-3 months (~24 years of climbing experience) and feeling pretty good about my climbing, sending a bunch of 5.11+ and a few 5.12s inside. Thinking I was getting strong, I went out to 'warm up' on a few 5.10s and that put me right back in my place where I belong! I think it would be safer and better all-around if gym grades were a little more in-line with outdoor. Last week I was climbing next to a few route setters what were taking laps on their new routes and they basically said, "...yeah, lets call it a solid 5.10. Probably would be a hard 5.8 or easy 5.9 outside." So they know...