Acceptable trail markings?

https://www.mountainproject.com/v/113566813

Is the LV community OK with this sort of trail markings to cliffs now?   This seems insane to me, but maybe I am the odd ball.  

One of many, many, such markings found on the trail to "Comedy Central" not too funny IMHO. 

I saw that when I was up there a couple weeks ago and thought that was completely ridiculous. Very trashy. Whoever is responsible should clean that up.

The best place to report this is by writing a detailed description (or GPS) of where it is located and report it to the Friends of Red Rock who organizes graffiti removal. I am sure they will also be in touch with the SNCC and BLM to help organize more volunteers for removal.  *Side note after looking a little more at the location. It might need to be brought up with the Forest Service as it looks like the crag is somewhat near the boundary line. Either way reporting it officially is a good start.

Write them here: preserve@friendsofredrockcanyon.org

Matt,

As this was almost certainly done by climbers, I had hoped here would be a better solution.  I hope those responsible will quickly go fix it themselves.  This is abnormal behavior for climbers.  I think we are better to give them a moment to correct it before highlighting it to others.  My  expectation is that the intent was well-meaning, but the action was clearly misguided.  

Yeah I'd be curious to know who it was we .... saw it a week or two back aswell , it follows the switch backs on the lower rockier part of the trail and then dies out higher up where it's just mostly dirt. someone must be going out there to "refresh" it though cause it wasn't as prominent and bright as it is in the photo those spots look pretty fresh.

When I see things like this, the only thing I can think is that the people who did it think they are doing other climbers a favor.  It's not.  Even if no authority or tourist or hiker ever saw this, it's not a favor to other climbers.  

I think this is disgusting and totally unacceptable.  

It doesn't matter if BLM or other agencies mark trails.  It is no excuse or justification to do this.  

Using marking paint to lead people a crag is just plain wrong.  What happened to just using cairns, when necessary.

Timothy Keenan wrote:

Thanks David for posting this! I had not read this thread, but take heart: the above may be the normal response from MP and I'm sure you'll get a a lot of "But still..." BS, but you may pass on a thank you to the the dude from me! 

So this guy can bolt routes but can’t figure out how to make a cairn or not spill paint all over the rock to mark a trail? 

Im not saying he’s a bad guy but I bet he could’ve done better. 

Still a bad idea. This kind of thing draws the negative attention of land managers. Even if climbers come forward in objection, BLM staff can still end up stuck between their own supervision and the community if word gets out to their upper managers. They need to be able to show their hierarchy they have things under control, and when photos of stuff like this get loose it is harder to make the case. If they have to choose, they will choose their careers over climbers.

If need be, work this out with land managers first. They hate surprises.

In general, the area is already under tremendous pressures from the stresses of having millions of visitors each year.  The less impact, whatever that is (candy wrapper, pile of poop, marking trails, unleashed dogs, etc) the better.

Instead of going rogue, maybe this climber could ask for community involvement to assist with hardening the trail.  I've been privately exchanging emails with Jorge about a trail issue in the pine creek area, and once a plan is determined I fully expect to volunteer time and/or materials to the effort.  I'm sure if given the chance, many would step forward to help with an ORGANIZED  and sanctioned trailwork project.

Fwiw, two of our friends from back East did Dark Shadows on their last visit.  All I told them is when the trail goes right at the Brass Wall stay high and avoid going into the drainage too early.  They said that alone brought them straight to it.  This was many months ago, likely prior to whatever (perceived) 'needed' improvement and marking was done.  One person's lack of direction is another's walk in the park.  I would not consider our friends skilled outdoorsmen/navigators.

Additionally, you can see in the above photo where there's still pink spray on the rocks, even under the newer orange spray.  To say it 'washes off within months' is obviously incorrect.

Timothy Keenan wrote:

edit: I can frustrate the hell out of my GF for the devil's advocate positions i tend to take. 

Maybe there's a lesson there?

More examples of overuse.

But we need more routes!

Was this thread randomly brought back to life or is it connected to the red spray-painted trail blazes that just recently appeared all over Pine Creek Canyon?

I find this appalling whether it is a brand new, hard to find crag or one of the most well-established, visible-on-satellite-imagery trails in the entire area.

Marks like these are worse than graffiti: At least the city kids who tag rocks in Red Rocks probably don’t know any better and never had the opportunity to learn how to respect the natural world. But these marks were, ostensibly, made by climbers or hikers: People who, one would think, would appreciate the beauty of the natural world and who should, one would think, know that it is most definitely NOT OK to spray paint rocks.

It’s a bummer other climbers are defending these actions. There are far better ways to develop and mark trails.

Is there a cleanup effort currently being organized for the huge mess in Pine Creek? I’d like to help.

Dave are you smokin' that peyote again!?!? Miss you bud!

Josh Janes wrote: Was this thread randomly brought back to life or is it connected to the red spray-painted trail blazes that just recently appeared all over Pine Creek Canyon?

I thought I was replying to the more recent Pine Creek thread.  Sad to see this has been an ongoing issue.

David Baylor wrote: I know the dude that did this, and you can thank him for all of his hard work. He was concerned about people going off trail until enough traffic occurred that the trail would be its own marking. Which was cool at the time, the trail sucked and that dude went up there and worked on trails all the time. The paint quickly fades and is no longer visible within months. Not my style either, but thanks to that guy for making the trails, and bolting so may routes for us to enjoy. No need to beat him down over it.

Sounds like another entitled "developer" who thinks they are doing God's work urbanizing wilderness.

David Baylor wrote:

Right and wrong are subjective, either way the paint will fade. 

But decisions by land managers rarely fade. Think the long game, man!

did solar slab over the weekend oak creek canyon has the same ugly bs markings!! if you don't know how to follow a trail or use a compass you shouldn't step foot out of your house, let alone going into canyons.

Not acceptable!