Grading Route Quality

Question - when grading route quality on MP, do you give star ratings compared to other routes you've done at all climbing areas (they all can't be The Nose) or do you give the star rating based on comparison to other routes in the same area (similar to how a lot of guidebooks do quality ratings)?

Within the area. Bastille Crack is 4-star for Eldo, but it'd be 2-star in Red Rocks or Yosemite.

Within the area makes sense to me.

If you were visiting this area for the first time, should you get on this route, or is this route more of a "meh, do it only if you've done everything else here"? First case gets high rating, the second case gets lower rating.

You can take a random mediocre route from the RRG, put it at a small OH crag, and it would skyrocket to 5 stars. :)

Mike Engle wrote:

Question - when grading route quality on MP, do you give star ratings compared to other routes you've done at all climbing areas ..... ?

For better or worse, I rate quality based on all routes I have done of approximately the same level of difficulty.  

Lena chita wrote:

You can take a random mediocre route from the RRG, put it at a small OH crag, and it would skyrocket to 5 stars. :)

True, NRG and RRG routes have spoiled my ratings of MA and NH sport routes.  A recent visit to CO did not help to correct matters either :)

it depends.  if the guidebook proclaims that the area is "world class climbing" (like they all do...), then i compare them against world class routes at world class areas.  if it is a podunk little area i am more lenient.

A combination of the two.

For example, our metropolitan crag in KC, Cliff Drive, is not particularly good in a lot of ways. Rock is slippery and chossy and the routes are short. That said, Under Fire gets 3 stars from me because it's one of the best at the crag but is pretty bad compared to, you know, anything else that's climbable. 

edit: a word

AndrewArroz wrote:

 I guess I'm doing a bit of both, too, now that i think of it.
I feel that a 4-star rating is only reserved for routes that would be considered a stellar route anywhere, at any crag.

The very best route at a mediocre crag wouldn't get a 4 star, even if it is the best route there. But it might get 3 stars at the mediocre area, because it is the best thing there, whereas the same route would get only 2 stars at a spectacularly good area.

Well a lot goes into this for me

1. Cool movement, I've given 5.7's 3-4 stars based on a few moves that were just a lot of fun to make

2. Rock quality, was I fearing for my belayer the whole time? If it's a new route I'm more lenient as most new routes need cleaning 

3. Was I hungover? Did I actually enjoy myself to the fullest or was I dying the whole time hitting the anchor and begging to get off?

4. Did I get back to the ground and want to do it again? This has only happened a handful of times. I make a send and immediately want to go back up to just repeat it and have the experience all over. I'm not one for taking laps for training, I don't really care about that stuff.

The local area is what I would go by. My reasoning is that a climbing destination, like City of Rocks, is already a group consensus on the ratings. Therefore, four star stands up.

If it was a new route, that would still apply. 

If it was a whole new area, then similar rock type, especially if the same sort of rock/climbing is in the region. All of the ratings should be even more of a YMMV situation, though, and climber beware.

Unless you are soloing a route, there are always at least two opinions!

Best, OLH

Edit to add: more than once, amusingly, I have noticed the lowest rating on a climb is by the same person who thinks it's harder than everyone else gives it! "Take that, you stupid route I can't climb!"

s.price wrote:

Area specific to me. When I am trying to get a sense of what routes are best by consensus at an area I only care about the context of that area. How it compares to another crag is not relevant to me. 

I know you put up new routes.

Have you had any that were unique enough to question how to rate them? A new route on a new crag, perhaps? 

Best, OLH

Keep it simple, and to answer the original question: Both. 

1 Star= Worth climbing

2 Star= classic for the area

3 star= Classic anywhere 

Things get real fuzzy once you start using a 5 star system and it makes everything look good. 

If every user on mp.com were to rate the quality of a climb on a local/relative scale, how is a user looking to make a roadtrip or visit going to decide between Destination A and Destination B if both places have approx the same ratio of 4-star and 3-star routes?  As several posts have mentioned, one area's 2-star route could very well be another area's 4-star if rated on a relative scale.  Of course, rating to an absolute scale has its issues as well, not the least of which is most climbers including myself do not have enough time nor resources to visit and climb at even 10% of all destinations that attract our interest, if one considers destinations outside the US.

To keep things in proper perspective, this question, while a lot of fun to ponder and banter over, belongs in the realm of "first world problems".  At the end of the day, if you got a lot of enjoyment out of a climb, then it is a 3- or 4-star route to you, regardless what is given on mp.com or in any guide book.  Climb, crank (or not), and savor the moment.

S. Neoh wrote:

I rate routes for others that will be looking at the route's rating when researching the area in the future.  If I give something 4 stars, I'm telling someone the climb is worth going out of your way for.  If I give it 3 stars, I'm saying definitely do it if you're at the crag or looking for a quality route in the grade.  If I give it 2 stars, that means it's worth getting on if you're already at the crag or really starving for something at the grade.  1-star means it isn't terrible, but is probably for local completionists only.  And the bomb is for the rare occasion I recommend against getting on a climb at all.  I think the way I do it is in line with most other people - I haven't been let down by a 3+ star route on MP with a reasonable number of votes yet in ~7 years of climbing.  

The only exception is that I rate boulder problems on their own scale, since I would personally rather climb a 2-star trad route than a 4-star boulder problem usually, but it seems unfair to the boulderers to do it any differently.