How to remove sleeved stud bolts?

I'm trying to remove and replace some bolts that I've never encountered before and I'm not sure how the hell to get these things out of the rock. Externally the bolts look like a regular wedge anchor with threaded rod protruding through the Hanger and held on by a nut, but once I pull the Hanger it becomes obvious that there's a sleeve in the hole. I'm assuming there's a cone fashioned onto the end of the stud past the sleeve but can't tell since the bolt is inside the rock. The hole diameter is 3/8, and the diameter of the threaded stud is 5/16". They're coupled with plated hangers, and are magnetic, so I'm pretty sure the bolts themselves are plated as well  

So, what is this style of bolt called, are there any bolts of this type and size that are acceptable for use in climbing applications(these ones sure don't look ok to me), and what's the best way to get them out so I can reuse the hole? 

Probably the general design of a Powers Lok-bolt, this type of bolt is made by many manufacturers. They are generally pretty weak.

http://www.powers.com/product_06160.php

I've pulled them simply by wiggling them out with pliers (even in Yosemite!), but probably because of mis-drilled or oversized holes. They can snap pretty easily so you need to be careful. If you can grab the sleeve with needle-nose pliers, then tap the core in lightly (one light tap) then go after the sleeve first.

I don't know if anyone has a good method for when they are solidly in the rock.

I am not aware of any specific method to get them out. I'd start with Greg's idea and then if that doesent work I'd probably attempt to over tighten the nut until the head breaks off. Then tap enough of the core into the rock so you can get good purchase on the sleeve with a locking needle nose Vice Grips. If you can get the sleeve out, you can then use a magnet or automotive hook to get the rest out. I would guess in general this would not be a reliable method of getting them out because if the sleeve is corroded at all it could stick to the inside of the hole pretty easy and a pliers wont get it out. If you can tap the cone in enough, you could try to thread the sleeve and then pull it out with a funkness but in my experience it doesent work most of the time and you end up just stripping the threads out.

Had the pleasure of replacing about 40 of these this summer. The best way I found for clean removal was to remove the hanger and put the nut and washer back on. Leave the nut flush with the end of the stud and give a gentle tap with the hammer to unseat the cone. Be sure not to tap the sleeve back into the hole. Once loose, I used vise grip needle nose pliers to grab the sleeve and rod together and twist the bolt out of the hole. On stubborn ones a little water in the hole and a 3/8" tuning fork were good to have. 

Trevor. wrote:

I'm trying to remove and replace some bolts that I've never encountered before and I'm not sure how the hell to get these things out of the rock. Externally the bolts look like a regular wedge anchor with threaded rod protruding through the Hanger and held on by a nut, but once I pull the Hanger it becomes obvious that there's a sleeve in the hole. I'm assuming there's a cone fashioned onto the end of the stud past the sleeve but can't tell since the bolt is inside the rock. The hole diameter is 3/8, and the diameter of the threaded stud is 5/16". They're coupled with plated hangers, and are magnetic, so I'm pretty sure the bolts themselves are plated as well  

So, what is this style of bolt called, are there any bolts of this type and size that are acceptable for use in climbing applications(these ones sure don't look ok to me), and what's the best way to get them out so I can reuse the hole? 

In my experience these are typically very easy to remove.  Most of them are a single sleeve that goes all the way into the hole, so all you have to do is tap the bolt back to release the sleeve, then grab the sleeve with some needle nose pliers and pull the whole thing out.  Things that can complicate this or even make them impossible to remove are as follows: 

1. some brands like powers have multiple sleeves, because the bolt goes through the sleeves there is no way to retrieve the inner sleeves and the bolt is just stuck. 

2. Some brands have friction creating features on the sleeve like a typical wedge bolt to keep the sleeve in place.  These are more difficult to pull the sleeve, and if the sleeve is too far in the rock to get a pair of pliers on, or the hole is too shallow to be able to push the bolt back behind the front of the sleeve it can be very difficult to get the sleeve to come out.

Fortunately, most of the ones that I've encountered are the single full sleeve without the friction fit.  Hopefully that is what you have on your hands. Also, once the sleeve is out even if you had to tap the bolt back behind the face of the rock the stud is easy to remove with a magnet.

I'm digging up this old thread to see if anyone has found better ways to remove external thread sleeve bolts. I came across several of these last weekend, and ended up breaking and patching them, and drilling new holes.
They were configured as below with 3/8" sleeve through a shut hanger. the holes were bottomed out, and didn't allow the stud to be driven back very far. there was 1/4" of sleeve visible, and i tried grabbing that with pliers and rocking it out of the hole, but the sleeves all ended up ripping.

I've removed 5 out of 5 of this design that I've tried in the last few years, 4 of them just by gently rocking out the sleeve with pliers. But on the 5th bolt, the sleeve ripped (super rusty), so I kept wiggling the bolt, rotating it, and aggressively blowing out the hole, and it eventually wiggled out (after various small pieces of the sleeve came out). But that was in basalt - might not work when the sleeve is "grabbed" by the rock (basalt is pretty smooth, not the large "grabby" grains that you might see in rougher granite or other rocks).

There are a couple photos in the route photos here (this one was not that rusty, just really beat up):

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106538566/kashmir

I'd be psyched to hear of other removal methods!

I've removed some of the same (junk) bolts that were severely rusted using the same techniques you guys mentioned; by wiggling them back and forth, sometimes with a light tap from the pick end of the hammer (the threaded stud), and then using pliers to pull them out. Giving them a twist has sometimes helped too.

You don't need to be able to hammer the threaded stud back much, only enough to disengage the anchor. And unless they installed it partially expanded, that's all that's needed to reverse the expansion.

Needle-nose vise grips are the way to go with removing these. The 3/8” sleeves sticking out of the wall that is, since the sleeve is usually goi g through the hanger so it isn’t flush with the wall. The 1/2” version (1/2“ sleeve with 3/8” stud) through a 3/8” hole hanger, is often much harder.

If you imagine the sleeve as a “C” shape, grab the top and bottom, so the vise grips are not touching the seam of the sleeve. It’ll keep the sleeve from opening up and tearing to pieces (like the one on the right in the bottom photo). Newer ones that aren’t super rusty can be removed in about a minute, or maybe 10min at the worst

Peter Thomas wrote: I'm digging up this old thread to see if anyone has found better ways to remove external thread sleeve bolts. I came across several of these last weekend, and ended up breaking and patching them, and drilling new holes.
They were configured as below with 3/8" sleeve through a shut hanger. the holes were bottomed out, and didn't allow the stud to be driven back very far. there was 1/4" of sleeve visible, and i tried grabbing that with pliers and rocking it out of the hole, but the sleeves all ended up ripping.

Has anyone tried spinning these like a wedge anchor? Any other approaches that have been successful?

I would guess that spinning would work, but I've never had to go that far with one of these types of bolts (that may be the only way to remove the multi-pieve sleeve versions of them).  As has been noted, even if installed bottomed out, there is no need to tap the stud in further than the bottom of the hole because by the nature of this type of bolt, that is sufficient to disengage the sleeve.  Last week I removed one of these and had issues grabbing the sleeve with the needle nose pliers (the bolt had some compression features that made it more difficult).  I ended up using a pair of diagonal cutters that were able to grab the sleeve much better to work it out.

I’ve heard that rusty 1/2” lok-bolts can sometimes just be tapped and then pulled, without ever spinning. I tried that with one, and didn’t have any luck so I tried spinning and that didn’t help me, but I think this was possibly an issue with the cone not disengaging due to an oversized hole

With 1/2", I have had success with the following method: 1. Remove nut and hanger and then lightly tap in stud.  2. Using a spinner tool, spin while gently pulling out on the drill.  Be sure to stop frequently to spray water on the bolt and in the hole.  Continue spinning until the sleeve is worn down at the cone. 3.  Pull out stud using a bolt extractor tool.  If the bolt doesn't easily pull out, then stop and repeat step 2.  

Drew Nevius wrote: I’ve heard that rusty 1/2” lok-bolts can sometimes just be tapped and then pulled, without ever spinning. I tried that with one, and didn’t have any luck so I tried spinning and that didn’t help me, but I think this was possibly an issue with the cone not disengaging due to an oversized hole

In softer sandstone, these can be pulled with a BRD without tapping or spinning. I've removed ~50 of these that way with a 100% success rate. Harder rock is a different story, especially when there is a spacer sleeve before the expansion sleeve.

Dan Greenwald wrote:

With 1/2", I have had success with the following method: 1. Remove nut and hanger and then lightly tap in stud.  2. Using a spinner tool, spin while gently pulling out on the drill.  Be sure to stop frequently to spray water on the bolt and in the hole.  Continue spinning until the sleeve is worn down at the cone. 3.  Pull out stud using a bolt extractor tool.  If the bolt doesn't easily pull out, then stop and repeat step 2.  

What type of rock were you removing them from?

Chase,

Granite

Dan Greenwald wrote:

Granite

Good to know you've had success with that method!