Best Rap Knot

I've read numerous articles about which is the appropriate knot to use for joining ropes during a rappel...seems the jury is out....can someone please rank/explain what is the best knot option for joining ropes with specific circumstances? Thanks.

My understanding is the EDK (European death knot) is best for two ropes of equal diameter and must have long tails. Other wise you cant go wrong with the double fisherman, the reason people don't use it is that it is harder to tie/untie and more likely to get caught when you pull your ropes down. Personally I have no issues with the EDK but I normally use ropes of equal diameter and check that my knot is well dressed. Caution, this question probably opens up a big can of worms and people will disagree. Everyone can have their opinions...

It's the knot having the most fun

Skye Swoboda-Colberg wrote:

This thread is a repeat:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/106896723/best-way-to-tie-two-ropes-together-for-rapping

of a repeat:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/106036788/the-overhand-knot

of at least two repeats:

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/general_climbing/knot_questions/105965147
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/climbing_gear_discussion/skinny_static_w_fatter_dynamic/105889152

Gotta love that search function.

Right on bro bra.  Cause if people talked about before, nobody should ever discuss it again.  What was discussed in the past is always total fact and new information is just dumb.  Right?

EDK for more than 2 decades.  

Equal diameter is not required.  Some of the pull tests showed unequal diameters are stronger than equal.  Just be sure the smaller diameter is on the inside of a "roll".  

AndrewSmith wrote:

.seems the jury is out....

Only because you're reading the mags and they still debate stuff that's borderline absolute science everywhere else. Anyway, the EDK is the money and it has been since before most of us started climbing. There are tons of articles on the topic on this forum.

And the mags, one in particular, wrote up the flat eight as being the same as the flat overhand (edk).  Yet, they are clearly different.  The flat eight is deadly, the flat overhand, aka, the euro death knot is NOT.  

Porter McMichael wrote:

My understanding is the EDK (European death knot) is best for two ropes of equal diameter and must have long tails. Other wise you cant go wrong with the double fisherman, the reason people don't use it is that it is harder to tie/untie and more likely to get caught when you pull your ropes down. Personally I have no issues with the EDK but I normally use ropes of equal diameter and check that my knot is well dressed. Caution, this question probably opens up a big can of worms and people will disagree. Everyone can have their opinions...

I've had DF hang up on my twice. One was in a potentially life threatening situation. So yea, you CAN go wrong with it.

EDK all the way. And R&I needs to up their game (they were the ones that conflated flat 8 and flat overhand. Shame, shame!)

Overhand, dressed and backed up with a stopper knot right down on the overhand. Dissimilar diameters are OK. 

The overhand is asymmetrical, so it is much less likely to hang up on edges or jam in cracks. It is simple, and so easy to tie and check. You can untie it after it has been weighted without excess swearing.

 And it is safe if tied as above.

Agree that EDK is overall the "best" rap knot. I also like the rethreaded figure-8 in certain situations. I've seen forum posts about the "flat fishermans" but never used it, anyone ever use that one?

Jury is not out, "EDK" or flat overhand is the knot to use for rappel. Make the tails extra long (>12"). Make sure you're using only a flat overhand and NOT a flat figure eight.

John Wilder wrote:

The jury is not out. The Edk is the standard rappel knot for most climbing scenarios and has been for a decade. 

Personally I just love the name "Euro Death Knot" badass and the main reason I use it.

EDK alllllllllllll dayyyy

Yep EDK is it. Only people that don't trust it are those that think it's no good because of how incredibly simply it is. I've used it on everything from 7.8 to 10.2. 

I seriously question the judgment of someone who prefers another knot over the EDK.  There are many solutions, but the EDK is the way to go.

Flat overhand bend (a.k.a. European Death Knot or EDK) is the best for joining two ropes together. A barrel knot is the best stopper knot.

Double (or triple) fishermans or retrace Figure 8 are also viable options, but may be harder to untie, and are absolutely more likely to get stuck when pulling the ropes.

I would probably use an alpine butterfly bend over an EDK if my rope was cut and I needed to rejoin it, and I would use an alpine butterfly loop to isolate any sections if the rope was damaged.

AndrewSmith wrote:

I've read numerous articles about which is the appropriate knot to use for joining ropes during a rappel...seems the jury is out....can someone please rank/explain what is the best knot option for joining ropes with specific circumstances? Thanks.

"Seems the jury is out" + "can someone please rank/explain."

If you believe the former, what's the point in asking the latter?

Greg D wrote:

Right on bro bra.  Cause if people talked about before, nobody should ever discuss it again.  What was discussed in the past is always total fact and new information is just dumb.  Right?

Awesome strawman brah, can't wait for all the "new" info this thread is going to turn up. 

Every so often (mostly at the Gunks) we'll bump into another party at the top willing to share ropes to speed up the rappel. Yee haw! And every so (every so) often that party gets all stiff and nervous and complainy when I tie an EDK. That's when I know we should have just done 2 raps.

+1 for EDK (aka flat overhand)

FWIW - http://www.rockandice.com/climb-safe/what-is-the-safest-rappel-knot

just remember, a knot is either tied 100% correctly (formed, dressed, and cinched) or it's 100% Wrong.  Attention to detail may save your life.