Thacher Ratings: Need Your Public Feedback

MikeH wrote:

Since Thacher is only found on GunksApps and will not be here in detail on MP

Obviously someone can't just copy the material and put it on here but otherwise, why wouldn't the routes be on Mountain Project?

Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs at the Mossy Corner area seemed sandbagged. It was 10d according to the app, but felt significantly harder than Permian extinction (also 10d, and reasonably so imo). Plus, it might be a bit harder now since I broke off a nice incut sidepull at the second-to-last bolt!

Zach Swanson wrote:

Obviously someone can't just copy the material and put it on here but otherwise, why wouldn't the routes be on Mountain Project?

Depends on what the community does over time, in the near term it's not on MP, and it needs the rating data now in the near term this month.  

It's possible a hold came off Under the Cedar Tree. Definitely some of these routes will get harder as they get worked.

MikeH wrote:

Depends on what the community does over time, in the near term it's not on MP, and it needs the rating data now in the near term this month.  

Is anything/anyone stopping users from adding thacher and the routes on MP?

Michael P wrote:

Seems like an odd request to make on mountainproject.... but maybe I am missing something.

I submitted Thacher Park information to mountain project and I was told they would build a Thacher Page, but that was three weeks ago and the page still isn't up.

Regarding publishing Thacher information on MP: 

All of the info in the Gunks Apps app came from the TCC developers. 50% of the app purchase price goes directly back to the TCC. I would hope that people support the app and the TCC and use crowd sourced info from MP as a supplement. Guidebook authors work hard and deserve support for what they have provided to the community. 

Not taking a position here, after all I climbed at the gunks and daks for only one short season 20 years ago, but there are still plenty of folks without smart phones...so no ability to download aps. If the developers oppose posting on MP, and I don't blame them, why not a purchasable PDF download as an option?

So we are held hostage by not getting Thacher route information unless we buy an app?  Isn't that what MP is suppose to be for?  What other area can't be on MP unless you buy the guidebook?  

Brian wrote:

Try reading the GunksApps response: clearly, its stated that all info was submitted to Mtn Proj.  

AndySalo wrote:

Try reading the GunksApps response: clearly, its stated that all info was submitted to Mtn Proj.  

"I submitted Thacher Park information to mountain project and I was told they would build a Thacher Page, but that was three weeks ago and the page still isn't up."

Brian wrote:

Sorry it sounded like from your response that they weren't putting up the pages at all not that they were just late in doing so.  

Gunks Apps wrote: "I don't think the puprose of Mountain Project is to circumvent supporting local guidebook authors for their efforts."  

Not their intent but that is what happens.  In many cases the "print guidebook" function in MP is better than the local, often outdated, guidebook.  I can't speak for any phone guidebooks.  

Yes, 50% does go to the TCC to help fund things like expanding beyond 56 routes in the future. Considering it's only 10$ for the guidebook for life and only 6$ parking fee per CAR once the machines are up and running at the park, that is cheaper than a Mohonk day pass, then only 6$ per car each day in the future after. Not a bad deal. As for the Thacher area page on MP that will help channel comments and discussion onto a proper area page. GunksApps is initiating that effort as mentioned. 

Having an Empire Pass for NYS parks could reduce your visits to Thacher to $0 after you bought the guidebook. This is especially important for locals who will be able to visit several times per week in good weather in order to train or get strong. And to keep up the core strength they can mix it with visits to The Edge and Albany Indoor Rock Gym during rainy days and most of the cold part of the year. Thacher is closed from Nov 1st to May 1st due to rare bat habitat issues.

Michael P wrote:

I did a decently thorough search of the gunksapp website and the gunksapp page on the apple store before posting but I didn't see any of this information about revenue sharing. -mike

Thanks Mike, We just updated our website to reflect the revenue Gunks Apps does. ie. We also give 10% of Trapps/Nears Routes/Bouldering app price back to the Mohonk Preserve and 10% of Gov Stable back to FrOGS.

Christian

Under the cedar tree Isn't a 10a anywhere. The climb is sustained 9+ with a stinger 10d/11a crux. I hung at the crux and still couldn't find any single way to make it happen that was anywhere near 10a. 

good climb though. We really enjoyed it. The grades 9 and under seemed spot on just as an fyi

worth russell wrote:

Under the cedar tree Isn't a 10a anywhere. The climb is sustained 9+ with a stinger 10d/11a crux. I hung at the crux and still couldn't find any single way to make it happen that was anywhere near 10a. 

Thanks, more detail helps when they update the guidebook. Maybe a key 1/2" flakey crimp came off at some point, it wasn't my route so I don't remember what was there before.

Had a great weekend climbing at Thacher. Much thanks to all the people that put in hard work getting access, building trails, and bolting routes. Our group felt a lot of the ratings were pretty on point with the exception of Little Black Rain Cloud having more of a 10a start as opposed to 5.9. A really awesome climb that I would also increase the stars in the guidebook to 3. I'm really stoked this line was bolted and I had a chance to get up there. Wondering why the first bolt is so high though, took some work to get it even with a stick clip. Kayah was also a favorite with nice airy moves up the arete to start! Crinoid stem may be 5.8 instead of 5.9. 

Headed to Albany in a couple weeks any chance of seeing information on this site? (I read that Christain tried) Sounds like MP overlords are holding out climbing community.  Using information (or lack there of) to manipulate the masses? I may not understand all the complex local factors that go into leaving an area off the internet but a reasonable response is expected.  I understand undocumented crags but this isn't one. I'm not angry but I'd love to go climb when I go visit.  I don't have a smartphone or I'd buy the app, if it comes out on paper Ill certainly buy one even if it's a shitty folding pamphlet.  Thanks to those who put the work in opening up climbing in the capitol district.

Ryan and Jesse Morse-Brady wrote:

... if it comes out on paper Ill certainly buy one even if it's a shitty folding pamphlet.  

We've been talking about a folding map/diagram which could be for sale, however GunksApps would like to solidify the ratings and stars feedback before investing in printing. So this thread helps advance the effort towards a printed annual diagram for sale at the park office.

So to help here is my opinion on star ratings which differ from the current digital guidebook:

Dunning-Kruger Effect - 2 stars (currently none listed)

TBD  (has been named by the developer Aquamanlius) - 3 stars

Tossin Ze Chossin - Like a short version of "Crynoid Corner" at Shelf Road, It is rated 4 stars in the app, because it is one of the best crack routes at Thacher, some people would say 4 star routes should be reserved for the top percent of routes in the world or country and clearly disagree with the 4 stars. Except for some dirt in the middle of the route in the crack which needs some cleaning it is a good route and should stand out, but probably it should be 3 or 3.5 stars in my opinion. Since Crynoid Corner gets 3 stars after thousands have climbed it, it would be fair to give Tossin the same rating.

Blue Moon in August - 3.5 or 4 stars instead of 3, this is a really cool hard route with awesome textured holds near the top

Choo Choo - 1 star instead of 3, this is because some heavy work needs to be done to improve the top of this route, I wouldn't take gumbies on this route as it is now.

Mokus Pokus - 2 instead of one star, because a number of people have mentioned they enjoyed the juggy roof, and I think it is equal or better than Rachel Boo as far as star rating becuase it is straight up and doesn't have the traverse which limits RB at 2 stars.

Tory Hole - no stars (bomb), for now, until it gets cleaned up better, the unusual mantle start and short thin crack make it fun still so in the end one star after cleanup

Hakuna Echinodermata - 1.5 stars (currently none listed)

Bexor - 2 stars (currently none listed)

Ian's Route - 1 star (none listed currently) Like many beginner routes at thacher it is lower angle, which results in more weathering action on the rock and makes them less clean in feel than the stout face lines.

Not my Chaucer to Bare - 1 star (none listed currently)

Kipu Crack - 2 stars instead of one, the crack is clean splitter and fun, although short

Starry Point - 2 stars instead of one, the face has fun clean textured rock and a fun crux move

Note: by "currently" I mean as of 7/31/17