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BD World Takeover
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When I started climbing, not too many years ago, BD made core climbing gear and distributed SCARPA boots/shoes, Beal Ropes, etc. into the USA from Europe. Since becoming a publicly owned and traded corporation, they've launched a goal to basically make (or have their logo on) everything anyone would ever want or need for mountain sports. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing for climbing and customers in the long run, but I do know that their very good products (Camalots) have basically paved the way for them to sell a ton of generic, or not-so-good products (clothes, harnesses, neutrino carabiners), and still make a killing based on the logo and consumer ignorance. A year or two ago, BD started selling ropes. They were not designing and making ropes, just designing the packaging and selling some Roca ropes with their logo on them, and for a lot more $$ than Roca charged. Despite not comparing to Edelrid, Mammut, etc in terms of quality, they were making a mint on the new "BD" ropes. Now it looks like they are selling climbing shoes (boots next?) and I wont be surprised if they make a bunch of money doing so.  But all this makes wonder: Apart from Camalots and C3s, what do they make which is really exceptional in terms of quality, innovation or value? 5 or 10 years from now, are climbing consumers going to regret buying BD EVERYTHING if it means that some innovative smaller companies are out of business? |
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Not sure why all the hate. Their products tend to be good, albeit sometimes a little generic. I've got a descent amount of BD mountain/ice gear and it is all top notch. Their clothing seems really nice too. |
Chris C. wrote: The complaint isn't about the quality of BD products. The complaint is that many BD products are not actually BD products; they're designed and manufactured by other companies. In those cases BD is just rebranding other people's work and charging more for it. For those products, BD are just middlemen, who are charging you more money while providing you no service. I agree, this is a problem with a lot of companies in a lot of different industries. |
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Their clothing is great. |
David Kerkeslager wrote: You could argue the entire brick-and-mortar retail sector does that. The fact that Amazon is the third most valuable company in the USA seems to mean most Americans agree. |
David Kerkeslager wrote: Why is it a "problem"? Sounds like a good way to make money. BD knows if they put their name on inferior products, it will tarnish their brand. |
20 kN wrote: You're correct that a lot of companies do this, but that doesn't make it any less of a problem. I'd also say that brick-and-mortars aren't a good example of the problem: a brick and mortar store provides a service in that they transport the goods to a physical location near the consumer. I'm not sure what you're saying most Americans agree on here, or what Amazon has to do with the discussion. Are you arguing that Americans would choose to spend 40% more money to have a logo stamped on their product if they knew that was what they were choosing? |
FrankPS wrote: I suppose it's only a problem if you think people who do work should get the credit and money for it. If you're fine with paying BD a big markup to take credit for other people's work, then I guess there's nothing wrong with it. |
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The shoe's look pretty crappy tbh, their stretch knit one boggles the mind, they are literally intentionally introducing a sloppy fit. |
David Kerkeslager wrote: They wouldn't get any credit or money if BD didn't bring their product to market for them. |
Scott O wrote: Exactly. |
Scott O wrote: On the contrary, it's quite possible to purchase (for example) Roca ropes on the internet without Black Diamond's interference. |
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You're going to have a bit of a markup on virtually any product unless you buy directly from the source. That's the point 20kN was trying to make. But that's also the good thing about capitalism, if you don't like the price or the quality there's plenty of other companies that will gladly take your money instead. Black Diamond is one of the largest climbing equipment companies in the world, and they didn't get that reputation overnight. To be honest I had never heard of Roca ropes until I learned about BD selling their ropes. Does that mean I wouldn't trust the company before? Not necessarily. Would I trust that company more now knowing that BD sells them under their own name? Absolutely. Frank is spot on with his comment. And if these products were found to be inferior, they would get rid of them immediately so they don't tarnish their brand. Most of my climbing equipment has come from BD, along with a few clothing items and a headlamp. Everything I own from them has been top notch, and I haven't had any issues with any of it. Through this I've become pretty loyal to the brand, and if I'm looking for a particular product I usually try to go through them first. Now if only they would cash in on the locking belay device market... |
David Kerkeslager wrote: Clearly Americans are willing to pay for a label. Look at every "popular/name brand " clothing item. Why do millions of people who never go outside own Patagonia, or Gucci or Lexus or Starbucks. I mean this list of name brand shit Americans waste money on is literally endless |
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I first bought ropes from BD in I think about 1998, and pretty sure Neutrinos and a BD Harness (Momentum?) a while before that. BD has been making a wide range of gear since the early 70s when they were Chouinard. By the way, the ropes were about the kinkiest I've ever encountered. BD (or whatever name they had at the time of the transaction) replaced them immediately, I think even before my return was received, and the replacement pair worked well. |
Jake wander wrote: Except the difference is most of those Americans don't have to trust their life to a brand. Well maybe Lexus, but still. Another argument is would you be willing to pay a few extra dollars to buy a product from a large company that extensively tests their products that they make or put their name on that you need to trust your life to, as opposed to saving a couple dollars on something you don't know the quality of? Maybe some of it is marketing, but a lot of other times the quality speaks for itself. How often does one see Black Diamond, Starbucks, Porsche, Patagonia, Petzl, or Ferrari commercials on television? Never, because they're quality speaks for itself. |
David Kerkeslager wrote: Roca is a willing partner. |
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Keep in mind, the small companies, such as Roca benefit too from increased sales and profits by selling to BD. Win win. And if a corporation is no longer profitable, hundreds or even thousands of people will lose their jobs. And nobody is forced to buy BD products in the first place. Profit is not evil. |
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Ha. I wouldn't be worried about a BD world takeover, they are tiny and have been struggling the last five years. If you want to worry about world takeovers, worry about parent companies like Amer Sports, Columbia, and whatever parent owns the North Face. Hating on BD has been cool for at least 10 years now. Besides cams, their ice climbing gear was/is still some of the best, a lot of their ski gear is great (best adjustable poles for example, Whippets are best, etc.), and they have always been one the companies spending the most on R&D (from wire gates years ago to the first battery powered air bag to market, to being the company with the best testing QC lab). They have consistently given me the best customer service of any outdoor gear company for nearly 20 years. Pick up the phone, talk to a real climber, and probably get a replacement part mailed completely free. Mostly US made now too. |
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private labeling is more common than most realize. trader joes, for instance, is a glaring example. I tend to think of TJ, and potentially now BD, as more of a curator of goods/services/quality allowing for a one stop shop with a brand you are familiar with and already trust. As far as the mark up, maybe justify it as they research and find quality products for you, private label the item, and you pay them for the item and their service. If you do the research yourself then there is no reason you can not circumnavigate the private labeler involvement in some cases. |
Jake wander wrote: This behavior is hardly limited to Americans. Why is spending money on a brand well known for design or quality "wasting" money? |
