Bail Beiners and quick links

Hey does anyone know what is the best types of quick links to buy for leaving on routes when you wanna try to save some cash?  Anything I should look for when buying quicklinks from a hardware store?  

Don't leave quick links on bolts if you bail. Leave a carabiner, instead.

Quick links have a habit of freezing up and being very difficult to remove. They can crowd up the hanger, making it very difficult for the next climber to hang draws.

Don't f-up a climb for others, don't be a cheapskate. Leave old biners instead.

Don't listen to these holier than thou clowns. If you want a quick link goto any hardware store and pick them up for cheap, or just visit any Southeast crag where someone either bailed because it was too hard, or they had to bail because of bad weather and clean up after the other guy. These guys act as if you are starting some new trend and are about to embark on a trip where you plan on leaving a million quick links at every crag in your wake.

jarthur wrote:

Don't listen to these holier than thou clowns. If you want a quick link goto any hardware store and pick them up for cheap, or just visit any Southeast crag where someone either bailed because it was too hard, or they had to bail because of bad weather and clean up after the other guy. These guys act as if you are starting some new trend and are about to embark on a trip where you plan on leaving a million quick links at every crag in your wake.

Yes, when you disagree with someone, resort to name-calling. Good arguing technique. 

jarthur wrote:

Don't listen to these holier than thou clowns. If you want a quick link goto any hardware store and pick them up for cheap, or just visit any Southeast crag where someone either bailed because it was too hard, or they had to bail because of bad weather and clean up after the other guy. These guys act as if you are starting some new trend and are about to embark on a trip where you plan on leaving a million quick links at every crag in your wake.

Said your neighbor when he shit in the river upstream. 

I'll +1 for leaving biners. It is better ethics in my book. Hard to remove a quick link once it rusts or freezes up.

Backcountry and moosejaw almost always have some carabiners on sale for around $4.

you can often find old used biners here on the for sale forum for a dollar or two. That's cheaper than quicklinks and doesn't come with all the issues of leaving quicklinks.

In the 10 years or so that I've been climbing, I've bootied about 5 bail biners and 5 bail quicklinks.  Once I found a quicklink on a difficult climb waaaaayyyy in the middle of nowhere (super inconvenient) .  One of those crags that you pass dozens of other crags to get to...  Anyway, it was a 500 lb rated one (pretty tiny) and had been there for years. I'd guess at least 6 years. I took it off no problem.  This area is frozen 6 months of the year, was covered in rust, a no-name china brand and I got it off no problem.  I'm not saying quicklinks can't or don't get stuck, but if you don't tighten it down with magic voodoo power, it usually comes right off. 

That being said, caribiners are preferred for obvious reasons and it's a great reason to keep all of those old REI or chouinard ovals lying around.  But quicklinks aren't too bad.

This one here is probably the smallest I'd comfortably go with..      homedepot.com/p/National-Ha…;cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|B|0|B-BASE-D25H+Hardware|&mid=b2iiQtFi|dc_mtid_8903vry57826_pcrid_73873454275192_pkw__pmt_e_

bring a stick clip

Mike Womack wrote:

In the 10 years or so that I've been climbing, I've bootied about 5 bail biners and 5 bail quicklinks.  Once I found a quicklink on a difficult climb waaaaayyyy in the middle of nowhere (super inconvenient) .  One of those crags that you pass dozens of other crags to get to...  Anyway, it was a 500 lb rated one (pretty tiny) and had been there for years. I'd guess at least 6 years. I took it off no problem.  This area is frozen 6 months of the year, was covered in rust, a no-name china brand and I got it off no problem.  I'm not saying quicklinks can't or don't get stuck, but if you don't tighten it down with magic voodoo power, it usually comes right off. 

That being said, caribiners are preferred for obvious reasons and it's a great reason to keep all of those old REI or chouinard ovals lying around.  But quicklinks aren't too bad.

This one here is probably the smallest I'd comfortably go with..      homedepot.com/p/National-Ha…;cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|B|0|B-BASE-D25H+Hardware|&mid=b2iiQtFi|dc_mtid_8903vry57826_pcrid_73873454275192_pkw__pmt_e_

This is a totally selfish, inconsiderate attitude. 

You spent how many hundreds of dollars to buy your gear, tens of dollars to drive to the crag and who knows how much on go pros and red bull?

But you would inconvenience every subsequent climber to save a couple of dollars by using a quick link instead of a cheap carabiner?

The sheer ingratitude offends me. Somebody spent $100 or more of their own money to put up a route and you think it's ok to screw it up to save a couple of dollars of your own?

I mean, really just do the math. Not the "it's barely cheaper so it's better" math, the "how much am I actually saving in order to make the next climber's experience more difficult?" math. there is no one that would rather remove a bail quicklink from a bolt than remove a bail biner. 

Mark said it and I was thinking it. I agree with him. Your saving like one or two fucking dollars.

Also, everyone is STOKED to booty a bail biner. Nobody is thrilled to find a quicklink. Make your fellow climbers happy, not sad. A couple bucks is nothing for that.

Mark E Dixon wrote:

This is a totally selfish, inconsiderate attitude. 

You spent how many hundreds of dollars to buy your gear, tens of dollars to drive to the crag and who knows how much on go pros and red bull?

But you would inconvenience every subsequent climber to save a couple of dollars by using a quick link instead of a cheap carabiner?

The sheer ingratitude offends me. Somebody spent $100 or more of their own money to put up a route and you think it's ok to screw it up to save a couple of dollars of your own

Mark,  all I'm saying is that I've never been inconvenienced by stuck quicklinks on routes and on the one day that I am, I'll clip my draw under it and do what I can to remove it.  It's not that big of a deal.  Also, I've never left a quicklink on a route... ever.. I have left old caribiners though.. Occasionally, I'll keep a quicklink on me just in case, but it usually only goes to replacing quicklinks that have been stolen on anchors.  It's obviously the goal and I think we are on the same page for that.  I was just trying to add to the conversation by saying that quicklinks are not the worst thing ever.  I'd rather see shut quicklinks all day long than a single chipped hold, closed area, trashed area, stolen anchors, etc. 

What is this ingratitude thing about?  You're talking to someone who has cleaned and developed many many routes - always leaving areas better than when I found them. 

To clarify, if someone leaves a quicklink instead of a biner when both are potential options PURELY to save a dollar or two, then that's not alright.  In many areas, it's common to have quicklinks as some part of the anchor system so bringing one around to replace stolen ones is OK.

Mike Womack wrote:

Mark,  all I'm saying is that I've never been inconvenienced by stuck quicklinks on routes and on the one day that I am, I'll clip my draw under it and do what I can to remove it.

It appears I hit them more often than you, and they are not always so easy to deal with. I remember one at the NRG that managed to take up most of the hanger such that fitting my draw in wasn't an option. Clipping it to the rusted out junker was also not appealing. And this, like where most people bail, was on the bolt before the crux. I could not budge the gate while lowering from the route after.

But at least the guy that left it save a few bucks.

+1 on the stick clip...use one and grab other peoples bail biners....

Mike Womack wrote:

Mark,  all I'm saying is that I've never been inconvenienced by stuck quicklinks on routes and on the one day that I am, I'll clip my draw under it and do what I can to remove it.  It's not that big of a deal.  Also, I've never left a quicklink on a route... ever.. I have left old caribiners though.. Occasionally, I'll keep a quicklink on me just in case, but it usually only goes to replacing quicklinks that have been stolen on anchors.  It's obviously the goal and I think we are on the same page for that.  I was just trying to add to the conversation by saying that quicklinks are not the worst thing ever.  I'd rather see shut quicklinks all day long than a single chipped hold, closed area, trashed area, stolen anchors, etc. 

What is this ingratitude thing about?  You're talking to someone who has cleaned and developed many many routes - always leaving areas better than when I found them. 

Mike, my sincere apologies if you are cleaning and developing routes. Your efforts are much appreciated by me.

My experience with quick links has been that they can be very difficult to remove and often inconvenience other climbers.

I don't see any advantage encouraging folks to choose to carry a quick link instead of a cheap biner, even if quick links are less evil than chipping, littering, etc. It's just not really the same issue.

I don't see many climbers around here carrying extra links to improve anchors and frankly don't expect most to do so, even if they should. But they can carry a biner.

Maybe the local trad climbers are different.

Nick Hitchcock wrote:

+1 on the stick clip...use one and grab other peoples bail biners....

sometimes you even get lucky and can use your stick clip to clean an entire route of quick draws