Yelling at Tahquitz/Suicide

Or email

Tradiban wrote: ^^^  I was almost taken off belay a few weeks ago because noobs were yelling without names, my partner yelled back to me "OK! Off Belay!" and I'm like mid-crux, started yelling "NO! NO! NO! NO!", thankfully we were close enough that he heard me, that could have been bad. I don't really like the tug system, tends to be too vague and get confusing as well, especially climbing with less experienced people.

Seriously dude, 

You chose a shitty belayer and now you are lashing out at the noobs? That's rich, about par for the course. 

Kedron Silsbee wrote:

How do experienced climbers communicate if they don't yell, use radios, or rope signals?  Do you get some sort of ESP once you've climbed trad for > 20 years?

Smoke signals, obviously! you don't cary a vape on your harness?

I've done the 3 rope pull/slack method and the "just wait until rope gets pulled then start climbing and hope for the best"...Sometimes things work well, sometimes they don't...

Regardless of communication and if I can hear my partner or not, as the follower I will always tug on the rope before I even start climbing to see for sure if I am on belay... If I can pull it easily with no resistance then it's not ready. Can never be too sure...

x15x15 wrote:

Hilarious... from AK, WA... to CA, I've seen plenty of radios used by real climbers... and nooBs alike. That's why I like finding compatible, regular partners. We know what each other is thinking and ESP gets us through the climb...

Burcheydawwwwwwg wrote:

What am I thinking right now???

That's easy brahji... you don't think...

im mad about stuff too

hi burchy

im mad about you too

TacoDelRio wrote:

im mad about stuff too

hi burchy

im mad about you too

tight

Hobo Greg wrote:

Pretty easy solution there, try using their name.

Because you can't hear their name and because the screaming is just plain annoying.

You just got burned. Next!

Jack Quarless wrote:

Seriously dude, 

You chose a shitty belayer and now you are lashing out at the noobs? That's rich, about par for the course. 

My partner made an honest mistake that was due to all of the yelling and screaming out there.

tim wrote:

Just text your partner

Doesn't MP have a communication on belay feature?

Hobo Greg wrote:

Not quite genius, because you stated that youve seen people take the leader off belay after hearing someone else say off belay, ergo, they obviously HEARD off belay, and had a name been tossed in there, they'd probably here that too.

Names get confused...it all gets confused in the wind.

Senior Hernandez wrote:

Good players don't make that mistake. I wouldn't climb with that guy again. People are going to yell dude, you got to get a good belayer who doesn't make silly mistakes. If it is not your custom to yell on and off belay then his mistake is totally un forgivable.

Well I guess that I'm more forgiving than you. The less yelling going on the better.

Tradiban wrote:

Names get confused...it all gets confused in the wind.

This attitude and your selection of belay partner tells me you're pretty inexperienced or just plain unsafe. I don't want to climb with you. 

s.price wrote:

Leave the wind out of this. Everyone knows the answer is blowing in the wind :)

better to use the pissing in the wind method. when you feel the spray you can take the leader off belay

Nathanael wrote:

better to use the pissing in the wind method. when you feel the spray you can take the leader off belay

Yeah, but Dylan would never sing, "The answer my friend, is pissing in the wind."
"

Marc801 C wrote:

This attitude and your selection of belay partner tells me you're pretty inexperienced or just plain unsafe. I don't want to climb with you. 

I'm sooooooooo offended and disappointed Marc!

what's a forgivable "honest mistake" anyway?  are some fatal mistakes less fatal just bec they're more "honest" in certain ways?  

funny you're forgiving of your partner's deadly malfunction, and yet unforgiving of others who are at less egregious fault, and want to make a big reach to insist other people go silent just so he would less likely malfunction again.  it was your partner's mistake first and foremost.  he was supposed to do as you two had agreed regardless of what other distractions abound, and he utterly failed.  if you're forgiving of that, then you should act likewise with others' sloppy communications, or at least be just as blasé about that as well

silent methods work only if nothing out of the ordinary happens.  if something unexpected does occur, you're down to guessing.  but of course, if not ending up dead, if lucking out, people like you wouldn't admit it anyway, and would rather pat yourselves on the back for having superior sense

voice commands are common bec they're effective.  experienced parties do often use them.  it's critical tho for voice commands to be SUCCINCT and DISTINCT.  too many nowadays don't even know that, and would yell sloppy phrases and drawn out conversations back and forth.  urging people to clean up their voice comm would be more helpful.  rope tugs, trust/anticipation via familiarity, etc have their own shortcomings and ambiguities.  the experienced are capable of switching to an appropriate backup method if need, but they absolutely do use voice commands plenty often

one other thing no one else has mentioned so far.  aside from alternative comms to deal with out-of-range scenarios, better yet to do more to not get in those situ's in the first place, esp with less familiar partners or in windy or other extra challenging conditions.  consider keeping pitches to reasonable lengths to ensure staying within hearing range if that's important, even if it means more shorter pitches to do, or not getting to link some pitches like a stud.  better that than stretching a pitch out til you're 200 ft apart and couldn't hear (or help) each other.  have seen enough of supposed "experienced" leaders stretch the rope way the hell out, whose "experience" apparently had amounted to only minimal consideration for their befuddled beginner partner and for overall safety

annoyance with Tahquitz's crowded wknd cacophany is nothing new.  go with your preferred silent method for your own safety if that's what you want, but don't only blame others when your own partner couldn't stick to the program and ended up endangering you.  as for other parties, if some boneheads could botch up voice comm, they might well botch up the alternatives even worse

if you really can't deal with Tahquitz wknd noise, then just go climb somewhere else with less crowds, or hit Tahquitz during the week.  if you insist on climbing where the masses are, you do only have yourself to blame

Sean wrote:

what's a forgivable "honest mistake" anyway?  are some fatal mistakes less fatal just bec they're more "honest" in certain ways?  

funny you're forgiving of your partner's deadly malfunction, and yet unforgiving of others who are at less egregious fault, and want to make a big reach to insist other people go silent just so he would less likely malfunction again.  it was your partner's mistake first and foremost.  he was supposed to do as you two had agreed regardless of what other distractions abound, and he utterly failed.  if you're forgiving of that, then you should act likewise with others' sloppy communications, or at least be just as blasé about that as well

silent methods work only if nothing out of the ordinary happens.  if something unexpected does occur, you're down to guessing.  but of course, if not ending up dead, if lucking out, people like you wouldn't admit it anyway, and would rather pat yourselves on the back for having superior sense

voice commands are common bec they're effective.  experienced parties do often use them.  it's critical tho for voice commands to be SUCCINCT and DISTINCT.  too many nowadays don't even know that, and would yell sloppy phrases and drawn out conversations back and forth.  urging people to clean up their voice comm would be more helpful.  rope tugs, trust/anticipation via familiarity, etc have their own shortcomings and ambiguities.  the experienced are capable of switching to an appropriate backup method if need, but they absolutely do use voice commands plenty often

one other thing no one else has mentioned so far.  aside from alternative comms to deal with out-of-range scenarios, better yet to do more to not get in those situ's in the first place, esp with less familiar partners or in windy or other extra challenging conditions.  consider keeping pitches to reasonable lengths to ensure staying within hearing range if that's important, even if it means more shorter pitches to do, or not getting to link some pitches like a stud.  better that than stretching a pitch out til you're 200 ft apart and couldn't hear (or help) each other.  have seen enough of supposed "experienced" leaders stretch the rope way the hell out, whose "experience" apparently had amounted to only minimal consideration for their befuddled beginner partner and for overall safety

annoyance with Tahquitz's crowded wknd cacophany is nothing new.  go with your preferred silent method for your own safety if that's what you want, but don't only blame others when your own partner couldn't stick to the program and ended up endangering you.  as for other parties, if some boneheads could botch up voice comm, they might well botch up the alternatives even worse

if you really can't deal with Tahquitz wknd noise, then just go climb somewhere else with less crowds, or hit Tahquitz during the week.  if you insist on climbing where the masses are, you do only have yourself to blame

TL;DR

Tradiban wrote:

TL;DR

Perhaps  you should take the time to read it. There is lots there that just might keep you from getting killed. 

Really, your self righteous attitude is wearing thin.

Tradiban wrote:

After listening to an Enormocast episode regarding safety I remembered this thread. 

I still stand behind my OP and I hope that some people out there can learn to climb safely without communicating verbally. It's a shit show of yelling daily at T&S.

8 months is a long time to hang onto something like this...................what's really bothering you? JB