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What is a Super Light Alpine Trad Rack for carrying into places...
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Maybe it's just me, but bringing Nuts, Offset Nuts, Hexes, and Tricams, as well as a single rack of cams, is WAY overkill for an alpine rack, especially one that has to be hiked in so far. Granted, I don't climb 5.10 alpine, but this is too much gear IMO. All else aside, your rack will vary wildly based on where/what you're climbing. |
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You couldn't pay me to carry NINE locking biners to a roadside crag, let alone a remote spot. |
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My thoughts in looking at your rack are similar to what others have mentioned. Way too much passive pro, way too many lockers. I also think you have an excessive amount of slings/cordage. I would probably dump the tricams, hexes, and BD stoppers, bring the metolius cams instead. I would dump the nylon runners, the cordelette, extra lockers (can't see needing more than 3 since you have the loose nano 22's). Also, only one 120 cm runner, no biner (again, loose nano 22's). Finally, I would just get a couple more light alpine draws, and skip the nano 22 draws. Of course, ymmv. Have fun! |
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My normal day to day roadside crag rack is: Metolius Pre-ultralight Power Cams 2-7 A BD 2 and 3 One set of about 10 nuts, mixed brands 8 draws, mixed brands 6 shoulder length slings each with a biner, mixed brands A 22' cordelette A double length sling Six lockers This is also my alpine set up. You get good at running things out when you can't afford much gear. |
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Thanks for the input. It is funny when I started climbing I climbed on a set of hexes, a set of nuts and eventually 1 set of rigid friends. I climbed on this rack for years and probably some of my best climbing on that set. Now I have way to much gear and am trying to slim down. It doesn't help to have gone through courses both AMGA and rescue where you learn to "need" extra gear for the just in case or what if senerios. I want to get back to the basics of just enjoying climbing and making due with what I have. And yes thanks for pointing out that 9 lockers is excessive. I had not thought about the fact that I carry 9. That is changing today. Keep the comments coming I am starting to realize that I might make my full kit fit into 30 liters after all. Thanks Dallen |
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For packing into the Winds for moderate routes from your gear I would take the BD .5 - 2 and one set of stoppers (your pick from the two you have). I might add 4 of the mid sized the hexes if I wanted to sew up a pitch or two or for anchors. If I was planning on routes that got above 5.8ish I would add the tcu's. and possibly the #3 BD. Take 6-8 alpine draws and 2 lockers, use the rope for building anchors but bring a single codelette. |
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In the Tetons I have climbed the Snaz, Guides Wall, Baxters, Upper Exum, and CMC on Moran all with 7 cams, a set of nuts, 5 quick draws, 4 lockers, two slings and a cordelette. |
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When I go to the Sierras I carry some variation on the following: Metolius TCU 00-2 racked on Edelrid 19g biners DMM Dragon 2 cams 00-5 (same as BD .3 to 3) racked on BD Oz biners #2 Omega pacific link cam on Camp Photon biner Single set of nuts and three Edelrid 19g quickdraws on oval 5 dyneema 60 cm slings with misc non-locker on each 2 dyneema 120 cm slings with misc non-locker on each 1 nylon 120 cm sling with misc non-locker (good for slinging horns) 2 spare misc non-lockers 3 lockers spare oval for carrying approach shoes and emergency prusik belay device on a locker, shoes, helmet, nut tool, etc. |
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If your max onsight grade is somewhere 5.10-5.11 and you are going to be climbing 5.10's in the Winds you might take the same stuff you would for any other 5.10 climb to protect yourself while cruxing out, especially for a place where you build all your own gear anchors instead of your local bolted anchor crag. When I go to the winds I take my normal rack plus my partner has extras (maybe each carry a set of nuts in case we epic or bail and need to leave gear). In the Winds you generally walk in only once humping your gear, then climb something different each day. So the burden of humping loads only happens once. Then you are in a remote setting relying on only what you brought. We took a third rope and a spare stove. Also in the Winds we subbed out some of our alpine draws for double-length tied webbing runners to use for replacing rappel anchor tat. It is a completely different story if you are climbing many grades below your onsight level in an alpine environment and really looking to lighten things up. Speed may equal safety, but I'd say it depends on how hard (for you) you are leading. Everything is route dependent. Doing Black Elk or Feather Buttress? You may want some larger cams... |
Alex Kowalcyk wrote: This. Prioiritize the climbing, not the approaching. Either be in good enough shape that it doesn't really matter on the approach (and you bring whatever makes you comfortable), or climbing below your onsight ability such that you're willing to run it out. I think those are the variables that matter most. I generally agree that eschewing a lot of passive pro is a good idea as it will hasten the climbing. |
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Realistically, I climb 5.9-5.10 in LCC, maybe a little harder in other areas depending on the route. I am looking at 5.7 to 5.10 routes in the mountains. I'm trying to get away from my regular rack and be more bold but not kill myself either. I would love to to the Snaz in the Tetons this summer. I was just reading the reviews here and there are people taking triples up that climb. I don't want to do that but I don't climb 5.12 either so I have to be realistic about what my rack looks like. 7 cams and a set of nuts is an impressive rack for 5.10 in the mountains in my book. I have climbed a fair amount in the Winds and Tetons so I'm not totally inexperienced in those ranges. I am sure I am taking to much gear into the mountains and thought that this thread would help me slim down. Some climbs on my tick list for the summer would be; Tetons Irenes arete, The Snaz, Gold Face on Exum Ridge. In the Winds I would really like to get the North East Face of Pingora every time I have been in there the route was out of condition due to rain, ice etc. I need to go in a bit earlier then September...I also have been looking at climbs on Haystack. I have heard of a climb in the "south fork" that goes at an awesome 5.9 for many pitches but have not been able to figure out the logisitcs of where the "south fork" is. In the Cascades I am looking at the full North Ridge on Stuart. I am somewhat of a pack mule so weight typically does not bother me. it would be nice to slim things down and go a bit faster. |
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It does seem a lot for an "alpine rack". But, for alpine climbing you've "gotta feel comfortable". Whether that means a "full rack" on climbs at your grade, or a smaller rack on climbs 2-3 grades below what you normally lead is up to you. A few general tips to save weight: Forget standard quickdraws. (Unless you know routes you're doing have bolts on face climbing) An alpine draw weighs the same and has three different lengths (full open, doubled and tripled) Much more versatile. For each cam, put a "tripled over" alpine draw on the cam and rack it that way, hanging it from the "middle" biner. 80-90% of your mountain placements will usually have a long sling. Buy a few really small, really light locking biners. Sure, you'll want two or three full-sized lockers for belaying and belay-anchor-point(s), but if all you want to do is make sure the biner doesn't open against the rock, a lightweight is just as good. If you think you'll be climbing with gloves, there's something to be said about NOT using the small, superlight (1 oz ) biners and going with the larger, "normal sized" wiregates. If you do use all "superlights/super-smalls, practice with gloves beforehand. My ice climbing alpine draws and "screamers" usually have a small biner to be clipped to the screw (or cam) and a larger biner to clip the rope into. In general small cams, less than say 0.3 or 0.4's, are of less use in alpine rock (a bit more fractured), and frequently even in cracks that size nuts work as well at 1/3 to 1/4 the weight. Two or 3 of my over-the-shoulder slings would be of 7 or 8mm cord, with the express thought these are 'expendable' to be left behind around flakes and boulders for emergency raps.And, even when you're slinging a block or flake for protection on a pitch, it just seems to "feel better" if the sling is 8mm cord and not thin nylon webbing. Except for #3 (and maybe #4) I'm not sure the ultralight cams save that much weight over the regular cams. Check it out. Remember 1 oz = 28 grams. Also, I usually take my OLD CAMS into the mtns. If you have to do an emergency bail, it just seems to make more sense to leave an old cam rather than a new one....and thinking about leaving the cam might mean the difference between a rap-failure and a secure rap station. You're more likely to leave the older cam than something you just bought for the trip. |
Mike Mellenthin wrote: Source? I was under the impression that the UL power cams (and even more so TCU's) are as light as they have ever come... |
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To each their own and I certainly do not want to sound flippant, but . . . for regular, popular routes in the Winds and Tetons in the 5.7 to 5.10 range, I would drastically cut down the rack and pack size. I trust you are talking about Teton routes like The Snaz, The North Ridge (of the Grand), South Buttress Right, South Buttress Direct (on Moran), Irene's Arete and Wind River routes like Northeast Face (of Pingora), Wolfs Head, etc. I would take a small rack of wired stoppers, say about six or seven of the mid range - racked on one biner, three or four cams past the largest nut size you take - racked on one biner, ten long, doubled up draws with light biners and one long sling you can use around features or cut up if needed. Most belays either have fixed items or you can use the rope around features, or use the rope in a knot like a hex in cracks. For any of the routes mentioned above, I would not take a harness, just three wraps around your waist with a 'bowline on a bit'. It will hurt if you fall, but don't fall. People survived and thrived taking huge unexpected falls for years with just tying into your waist. (Think Chouinard on the North Face of Teewinots Crooked Thumb - 100 footer caught with a hip belay) Running shoes and an old sloppy pair of Chilli Spirits with soaks. I would cut (literally chop) down a 9.1 ~ light rope to 50 meters. 150 feet is longer than most pitches your encounter and why link pitches together with your limited rack of gear. Faster to belay when convenient and/or easiest to setup. If you need to rap (South Buttress Right) take a light harness and DMM Bug. Or . . . . one of the doubled light slings works ok made into a figure eight and four biners setup for a brake bar. I love to chalk up, so I take a bag just for effect, but doubtful you really need it on Irene's Arete. And, I would get the smallest pack you can find, carry the gear and extra cloths in it and have your partner carry the rope and some candy. I'll bet you have more success going this way, and if weather or fear turn you around, go back later when the stars align. |
Sunny-D wrote: Triples for the Snaz? It's been a while since I did the whole climb, but that seems like total overkill to me. However I did lead the Snazette this past summer and felt pretty runout at the top with just doubles of .75s to 1s, but it was one of my first trad leads post baby so maybe I was just being a wimp. :/. Good tick list you have. Get on 'em! |
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Stuart NR direct. totem blue to green, .5 x4, .75-#3 c4. Doubles of #1. Effectively doubled from .5-1 dmm offset alloy and 3 largest brass offsets on wire oval 8 60cm dyneema slings with nano 22 and Astro biners on 4 for harness. Others over shoulder with one biner 4 120cm dyneema with one photon biner wrapped around shoulder 1 20 foot tech cord on photo biner atc guide bar stock attaché for guide mode, grivel plume twin for guide to anchor, vapor for clove 8mm half rope, first pitches used as single. Doubled to simul rest of route. dont use a vapor to do guide mode, they SUCK. Shit ton of drag. Get a full round stock biner. photons are a pita for racking wires. It's easier to flip around an oval. unless I know I NEED a 3 or 4 I'll never bring one. I find pro in the .4-.75 range most plentiful here in the cascade moderates. Don't skimp on slings, go long to cut back drag and get longer pitches. I default to nuts when pro gets smaller in the alpine, due to moss/crap in cracks. I'm more likely to bring small wallnuts to supplement cams under .3 for most route. |
 Ellingwood Ledges, Crestone Needle |
Gunkiemike wrote: I think I'd 9 lockers to a roadside crag for a very small price. But yeah, in the mountains... WAY overkill. 3? |
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Nobody big on tricams? My alpine experience is limited and I haven't done anything in the cascades, but I have found them great for easy stuff with long approaches. I have been comfortable with taking them instead of doubles. Also can be used passively if you already used that nut size. |
Gordon88 wrote: I think it depends on what you are doing. I personally use them on my regular rack, so I agree with you they are great for alpine stuff. Especially for easier stuff, tricams just give you more placements in more of the broken rock. Tricams literally are the most versatile piece of gear for largest amount of placements that you can get, and they can protect where nothing else will. Often I use them for anchors to save cams for the lead, too. I think the rack really needs to match the level that you are climbing at. You can go really slim/skim if you are climbing easier, blockier less steep stuff. I just depends on the route and the difficulty. If I was looking to go really really light alpine rock 5.10, I'd take a full set of the new UL master cams 0-8 and a full set of the met UL nuts. Then add extras of what is hard depending on the route or your preferences. |
