Personal anchor for protection while clipping a bolt above ?

It's not uncommon for bolts to be placed such that the most comfortable stance for clipping is from below.  The amount of slack needed to clip can be concerning, especially on the 2nd or 3rd bolt.

I would think an easy mitigation would be to clip the personal anchor to the quickdraw before pulling up the rope.  But I can't recall ever seeing it, so I wonder if I am missing some downsides.

The caveats I see:

 - anything more than 1-2 inches of slack would be bad (I might opt to just hang while clipping)

 - won't work if the bolt is to the side (as opposed to above)

 - belayer needs to be made aware, so they don't feed slack too early

 - the right length of PAS needs to be measured out in advance

 - forgetting to unclip the PAS and falling would be disastrous

Other than that, would anyone see safety concerns with this method ?  Better ideas ?

(My context is returning to leading after an ankle fracture, so I want to minimize the length of potential falls)

Climb up to the piece and clip at your waist.  If you blow it at the bolt, you will fall less distance than if you took a huge loop of rope to clip below.  

Reasons not to connect to the piece are:

1) you crowd the bolt and create a cluster which could have been avoided by just clipping normally.  

2) it's in poor style, and takes more time.  

Serge Smirnov wrote:

Better ideas ?

(My context is returning to leading after an ankle fracture, so I want to minimize the length of potential falls)

Just clip the rope.  If you can fiddle a PAS into a draw and still leave room to clip the rope, then, just clip the rope.  

Maybe stick to routes you find comfortable to lead for awhile until your head gets straight.

Serge Smirnov wrote:

Other than that, would anyone see safety concerns with this method ?  Better ideas ?

(My context is returning to leading after an ankle fracture, so I want to minimize the length of potential falls)

Or climbing with double ropes and get a belayer who knows how to properly belay with doubles. But a stick clip is much cheaper with less of a learning curve.

I agree, best strategy is to keep climbing and clip at your waist. I am also a wimp, and understand how ankle injuries get in your head. Sometimes you're over slabby or otherwise "no-fall" terrain where you just can't make yourself commit. 

So I think this is a decent backup strategy, but would consider:

1. Use a Purcell Prussik instead of a PAS
   - easily adjustable length without unclipping your carabiner
   - Likely to slide in a fall, providing more shock absorbing ability than a static PAS

2. Clip the draw you are expecting to use to the bolt first, then clip the Purcell to it.
   - Could clip the upper carabiner (perhaps faster and easier)
   - Could clip the webbing loop below the upper biner if your draw allows (may be safer and avoids metal on metal)

3. I agree, don't forget to unclip the tether before climbing on! That would be bad.

Just toprope.

Serge Smirnov wrote:

It's not uncommon for bolts to be placed such that the most comfortable stance for clipping is from below.  The amount of slack needed to clip can be concerning, especially on the 2nd or 3rd bolt.

I would think an easy mitigation would be to clip the personal anchor to the quickdraw before pulling up the rope.  But I can't recall ever seeing it, so I wonder if I am missing some downsides.

The caveats I see:

 - anything more than 1-2 inches of slack would be bad (I might opt to just hang while clipping)

 - won't work if the bolt is to the side (as opposed to above)

 - belayer needs to be made aware, so they don't feed slack too early

 - the right length of PAS needs to be measured out in advance

 - forgetting to unclip the PAS and falling would be disastrous

Other than that, would anyone see safety concerns with this method ?  Better ideas ?

(My context is returning to leading after an ankle fracture, so I want to minimize the length of potential falls)

Maybe this climbing thing isn't for you.

You can probably rodeo clip the draw from the ground. It's fun and looks cool!

Yer gonna die!

Just climb and put the rope through those clippy things. You are overthinking this.

Yet even more overthinking and over analyzing. Climb more and pontificate less.

You should be clipping from wherever the intended stance is. Sometimes this means clipping over your head, rarely at your waist. Lead classes taught in gyms always seem to claim the clipping at your waist is somehow safer -- Again, it is very rare to be on a real route where the equipper sets a stance where the bolt is at your chest. Besides, climbing past the intended stance is much riskier than pulling out slack from a comfortable stance.

If you are too short to reach the bolt from the intended stance, consider bringing a stiffened draw with you -- you can wrap the dogbone in tape or create a "splint" of sorts with a twig and tape. This way you can gain a few extra critical inches of reach. Be aware that stiff draws will walk and rotate much more easily. 

Michael McNutt wrote:

Climb up to the piece and clip at your waist.  If you blow it at the bolt, you will fall less distance than if you took a huge loop of rope to clip below. 

Not entirely true. The fall distance will be the same. It's just that the starting point and ending point will be higher. Clip from wherever the best clipping holds happen to be, whether this is over your head or at your waist. All else being equal, clipping and your waist will be more efficient and maybe safer.

If you can't clip, grab the draw. If you still can't clip--don't try: you're definitely whipping. Just let go and fall. Practice soft catches with your belayers in the gym. 

Hint: If you are ever above your bolt and say 'take' you are probably doing it wrong.

I don't think I would ever fiddle around with clipping a PAS into a high bolt. 

I agree with others that there are times when clipping above your head is better than trying to climb up and clip at the waist.  Sometimes you have to think about what the route setter was thinking when they placed that bolt.  I find that when a route was bolted ground up on lead I often find bolts placed about 8" above my head when I am standing on a comfortable stance.  In that case it makes sense to clip above my head, the route setter was probably standing at the same stance when he/she drilled the hole, and a fall is highly unlikely since I am so comfy. 

 On the other hand, if you are standing on tiny dime edges, clinging to a shitty sloper, and your next move looks just as precarious, but you feel an urge to clip the bolt above your head because you think this stance is better than the next one will be.   you need to resist that urge.  Think to yourself, would the route setter really intend for me to clip from such a precarious position?  That next move is probably not as bad as you think it is, and there may be a jug just out of sight. 

Route setters are usually pretty thoughtful about where they place bolts.  If it seems like you are on an obvious stable clipping stance, then you probably are.  Just go ahead and make the clip no matter how far up it is.  Otherwise, try to clip between the waist and chest.

Sometimes the 2nd/3rd bolt have to be high enough to leave deck potential due to rock quality. On those routes where a great stance exists, but the clip is just out of reach, an extended draw that is rigid can be great. Clip this from the stance, clip rope easily and safely, add normal QD after you get up to the bolt.

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Machine learning?

When clipping above yer head close to the ground do not fall. If you fall you break yer legs. It is fair. Nobody has made you to jump on that climb.

You could get a Kong Prog or Panic 

Serge Smirnov wrote:

I would think an easy mitigation would be to clip the personal anchor to the quickdraw before pulling up the rope.  ... anyone see safety concerns with this method ?  Better ideas ?

(My context is returning to leading after an ankle fracture, so I want to minimize the length of potential falls)

8+ years ago I badly broke an ankle in a lead fall so I understand your context.  First lead I protected with gear 2 or 3 times as much as before or now.  I know you’re talking sport climbing.

Some of this has probably been said but thought it worth emphasizing a couple things ...

* Doing so, you would be sort of training yourself to grab draws.  A personal friend and others have done this, fallen, and gotten their wrist/hand impaled on the hook of the biner.  And evaluate whether this could happen with your personal attachment.

1. Get a stickclip to protect from groundfall early in the climb.
2. Clip from the best stance, whether it be over your head or at your waist.
3.  Buy The Rock Warriors Way and learn how to deal with your fears. (Fear is part of this game)
Good luck!!

Serge Smirnov wrote:

It's not uncommon for bolts to be placed such that the most comfortable stance for clipping is from below.  The amount of slack needed to clip can be concerning, especially on the 2nd or 3rd bolt.

I would think an easy mitigation would be to clip the personal anchor to the quickdraw before pulling up the rope.  But I can't recall ever seeing it, so I wonder if I am missing some downsides.

The caveats I see:

 - anything more than 1-2 inches of slack would be bad (I might opt to just hang while clipping)

 - won't work if the bolt is to the side (as opposed to above)

 - belayer needs to be made aware, so they don't feed slack too early

 - the right length of PAS needs to be measured out in advance

 - forgetting to unclip the PAS and falling would be disastrous

Other than that, would anyone see safety concerns with this method ?  Better ideas ?

(My context is returning to leading after an ankle fracture, so I want to minimize the length of potential falls)

Wow, you are way overthinking this, if a low bolt may be in groundfall territory, just use a stick clip, it is what they are for, you clip the bolt from the ground, then you don't have to worry about it anymore.  If you can't clip the bolt from the ground and are worried about it, just choose a different route.
Now, for the downsides to your idea:

1. why is clipping a personal anchor to the draw going to be somehow easier than clipping the rope to the draw?  If you are clipping something to the draw, just make it the rope and be done with it.

2. if you are pre-clipping the PAS to the draw prior to clipping the draw to the bolt, I can pretty much guarantee you that you won't get the length right most of the time which will result in you pulling the draw up, not being able to reach the bolt, trying to fix the issue, and pumping out.

3. once you get the rope clipped to the draw, you have the extra steps of trying to get the PAS disconnected from the draw which may seem easy, just weight the rope and unclip right, but when the rope is now sitting on top of the PAS or pinching it against the side of the biner, it's not going to be easy to get that PAS out of the draw and you will end up pumping yourself out, while risking falling onto either an open biner or the PAS (or worst case scenario, falling onto the PAS with the biner open) as you try to remove it.

Now, just for some other minor points related to your post: clip the bolt from whatever the best clipping hold is, on outdoor routes, this is most likely going to be above your head because that is how people bolt routes.  Yes, it could be marginally safer to fall while clipping a bolt at your waist than while clipping the bolt above your head, but the real take away shouldn't be to always clip at your waist, it should be DON'T FALL WHILE CLIPPING!!!!!!!, especially down low.  Now you may ask, how do I not fall while clipping?  The answer to this question is to clip from the best hold available, and think about how you feel prior to pulling up rope.  It is pretty easy to tell if your hand is feeling good enough to pull up rope and clip, if it is too pumped, don't pull up rope to clip, either downclimb, or fall off onto the previous bolt without having an armfull of slack out.  Also, practice clipping draws while on the ground, so that you can clip quickly, it always amazes me seeing gumby climbers who spend 30 seconds trying to fumble the rope into the draw, clipping is something that takes practice, so go ahead and practice it in a safe environment until it doesn't take more than a half a second to get that rope into the draw.  The entire process of pulling up slack and clipping it into the draw should take less than a second, so there is really no reason you should ever pump out while clipping.

Have you tried ground up top roping?