Where is CAMP Warden harness made? China?

Hi,
I fell in love with the CAMP Warden harness, it seems to really suit my expectations (just bought a Petzl Aquila one and I'm already trying to get rid of it -- it looks to me like a toy harness!). I plan to use it for everything from ice/mixed climbing to aid to high altitude.
However, what bothers me a lot is that a friend of mine told me that CAMP manufactures in China........ Is this the case for the Warden harness too?
I've asked CAMP last week, but still no answer -- and this starts to get suspicious......
Thanks a lot in advance and have a nice day!
Rob

There is a good reason why most things are made in China, country of origin should be the least of your concern when buying a harness.

If you want USA Made, buy Misty Mtn.

Rob Lkc wrote: However, what bothers me a lot is that a friend of mine told me that CAMP manufactures in China........

Okay. What's the problem?

Seth Jones wrote: Unless, of course, you prefer your kidneys painless. I know people love them but Misty harnesses are downright painful for me to hang in.

I'm with you. Can't stand 'em. Super not comfy for me.

JK- wrote: Okay. What's the problem?

That a company that manufactures in China to save few dollars on a 150$ harness does not go along well with me hanging from that same harness with 300m of air below my feet. One thing is a dvd-player that breaks after a month, but I don't want to be 10m above that last, sketchy protections wondering if the buckles are going to hold or not...
(just for the records, I have a Magnetron BD carabiner made before BD moved back to US (but still an original one). Used once, one of the two magnetic levers does not lock properly anymore.... I won't use it for anything more than holding my apartment's keys!)

Seth Jones wrote: Unless, of course, you prefer your kidneys painless. I know people love them but Misty harnesses are downright painful for me to hang in.

Must be for fat old guys.. mine fits great.

Rob Lkc wrote: That a company that manufactures in China to save few dollars on a 150$ harness does not go along well with me hanging from that same harness with 300m of air below my feet. One thing is a dvd-player that breaks after a month, but I don't want to be 10m above that last, sketchy protections wondering if the buckles are going to hold or not... (just for the records, I have a Magnetron BD carabiner made before BD moved back to US (but still an original one). Used once, one of the two magnetic levers does not lock properly anymore.... I won't use it for anything more than holding my apartment's keys!)

That's like arguing Toyota trucks are junk compared to GM.

Rob Lkc wrote:However, what bothers me a lot is that a friend of mine told me that CAMP manufactures in China.......

Yeah...I'm going to have to echo what was said above: AND?!

You're ascribing assumptions based on country of origin to the quality of a product that you self-admittedly like.

Here's some useful questions:

Did their QC process change depending on the country of origin for any given product?

Is it not rated by CE or some other body for quality and safety still?

Is there a real reason (other than any number of words ending in 'ist') for your distrust of the product?

Furthermore, consider reputations of countries, and think about what someone outside of the US might think when they see a "Made in America" sticker-flag on a product...

You'd never fly again if you knew some of the people manufacturing and testing aircraft parts in the US.

Rob Lkc wrote: That a company that manufactures in China to save few dollars on a 150$ harness does not go along well with me hanging from that same harness with 300m of air below my feet.

What's the problem with a climbing harness being made in China???

Rob Lkc wrote:One thing is a dvd-player that breaks after a month, but I don't want to be 10m above that last, sketchy protections wondering if the buckles are going to hold or not...

Um... are you aware that there is a very wide range of quality control among Chinese manufacturing? Chinese factories can churn out utter crap, or they can manufacture high end products (Do you have an iPhone? How about an Arcteryx shell? Look at where they're made...), and everything in between.

It depends on what guidelines the factories are instructed and paid to adhere to.

Rob Lkc wrote:(just for the records, I have a Magnetron BD carabiner made before BD moved back to US (but still an original one). Used once, one of the two magnetic levers does not lock properly anymore.... I won't use it for anything more than holding my apartment's keys!)

Funny that you bring up Black Diamond...

Were you not aware of their massive recalls of most of their products lines after they moved manufacturing back to the good ol's US of A?

In about 10 years of manufacturing in China Black Diamond didn't have any recalls.

I think metolius still makes their harnesses here in the US too.

When I have the option, I buy goods made in America or Europe. Not because I think climbing gear made in China is going to fail, but because I would rather support a manufacturer that pays decent wages to its workers, and is required to follow reasonable environmental and health standards, rather than some third world sweat shop.

Your making a lot of assumptions about Chinese manufacturering. Yes, basically everything from camp comes from China. However. For my money it's on parity with other manufacturers.

Let's look at other harness manufacturersfpd@infowest.com

Petzl Malaysia some in france
BD Philippines
Edelrid Vietnam (I think)
Camp China
Mammut Vietnam or Malaysia
Misty mnt USA
Metilous USA
Dead bird Canada

Most of the harnesses on the market come from Asia. Petzl makes some of the best in Malaysia.

That being said. I sport climb in a Sitta, I have had a bunch of dead bird harnesses. I wall climb in a metilous Waldo

They have all been great. The Warden (despite its association with my moniker) did not jive with my body well.

It is well thought out. And a damn good harness. If you like it keep it.

Camps no twist belay loop is also genius

Most soft goods are manufactured in asia somewhere. Those that aren't (Misty, Metolious) often are far behind in technology. Some (not all) outdoor companies make it a point to still pay decent wages and follow strict environmental stanards, or contract with companies that do. They will all require strict QC if they want to keep their CE certification.

Why do even high end companies manufacture most soft goods in Asia? Because decades of soft good production happening there for cost reasons has the ripple effect that Asia is where the expertise and the facilities are.

Manufacturing in any country can and will run the gamut quality wise. It's more important to trust the company than trust the country.

This is what people really need to drill into their heads, china is the better option for pretty much all soft goods manufacturing and it has nothing to do with price, allot of European manufactures could make their stuff with in the EU and probably save money due to free trade but they would have to invest so much in the manufacturing it would cost them (and you) considerably more for no quality increase.

It may have been true a decade or two ago that China just pumps out cheap crap while the US builds top-quality products, but those roles are well on their way to reversing. After decades of being the manufacturer for the US market, they have built up vast expertise in most sectors of manufacturing. At the same time, the US has lost much of that expertise, in part due to complacency, being convinced that we're still the best despite the growing evidence to the contrary, and therefore clinging to outdated practices. I recently worked with one of the main US-based producers of aluminum sheet. It came as a shock to most people in the company when they learned that we were being outcompeted in the global market by multiple Chinese companies; not only in terms of price, but in terms of quality as well, by a significant margin. That's not to say that the Chinese don't produce plenty of cheap crap, because they do, simply because the market likes buying cheap crap; but they also have the expertise to manufacture to the highest standards in the world. A foreign country like CAMP can easily find a manufacturer in China that will build their products as good or better, for less cost, than any company in the US.

Please do not imply something I haven't said. I am not saying that everything coming from China is crap (as Chinese products cover the whole spectrum, from crap to excellence, as products for any other country in the world do), what I am saying is that if they moved the production there (and they were historically based in Italy) is that they operate on cost-reduction principles, as sadly most companies do, and not in a "I don't care if it costs more, but I want to do the best product ever" way. And if I could accept that when buying a 40$ harness, I am not willing to do that for a 150$ one -- if I can ascertain the good quality, I would buy it even at 180$, because I know it would last so long that the investment would be repaid.
In the same region of the original CAMP production site there are at least two well known (at least in EU) companies, Kong and Climbing Technology, that still manufacture in Italy. For your info, Kong products are (along with Petzl ones) almost a standard for rescue teams in EU.

My apologies if I misinterpreted your comments...but you did say that you would worry about the buckles on a Chinese harness holding, and that there's something suspicious about a company choosing to manufacture in China. My point is that you should be no more worried about a Chinese buckle failing than you would be about one made in any other country. Moving manufacturing to China is often a cost-reduction measure, true, but it does not imply a reduction in quality if the company does their due diligence; and if the company fails to apply adequate quality control to their manufacturing in China, well, they would have failed to do so no matter where their goods were manufactured.

Rob Lkc wrote: That a company that manufactures in China to save few dollars on a 150$ harness does not go along well with me hanging from that same harness with 300m of air below my feet. One thing is a dvd-player that breaks after a month, but I don't want to be 10m above that last, sketchy protections wondering if the buckles are going to hold or not...

Rob Lkc wrote:Please do not imply something I haven't said.

Don't you worry, no one is imply anything that you haven't said.
Rob you are ignoring the whole, massive amounts of money to invest in the same quality, when did you hear about Kong or climbing technology being at the forefront of tech in soft goods soft goods? Petzl is absolutely massive compared to Kong, black diamond and camp they are the only people who can afford to handle the massive investment costs of starting up an entire production line and getting the machines for the production line.
If you want manufacturing to not happen in china you will either have to sacrifice one of two things tech or price point.

Climbing Technology make their harnessses in Rumania.