Redpoint with Prehung Draws

If I'm sport climbing at a crag and the first time I climb a route I set the draws and don't climb it clean, then climb it a second time on lead clean, does it count as a repoint if the draws are still up?

Yes. The pros do it all the time.

Yes. But it's worth noting the inherently flawed concept of 'it counting.'

I thought this got settled in the 90s?

Daniel,

What "counts" is that you have fun and stay safe. Set your own standards and don't worry what other people think.

I'd love to see somebody hang draws ground up on something at the Madness Cave or Motherode in RRG, lol. Frank said it best, but yes, it is accepted to "count" a sport redpoint on pre-hung draws.

Call it what you want. I call it a pink point, but plenty of folks get their panties in a bunch when you say such truths. Watch how defensive folks get to this post to see what I mean. We are one step away from calling a TR a red point...

On vertical routes, it is easier to lead a climb if the quick draws have already been placed, no doubt about it. Less energy needs to be used because there are fewer movements required. Since the draw hangs lower down on the rock compared to an empty hanger, it is marginally safer with preplaced draws because you don’t need to be as high above your previous protection to make the next clip.

For me personally, leading a route with preplaced draws doesn’t quite compare with leading a route placing the draws myself. Would both styles be called redpoint? I think it’s reasonable to debate.

I'm pretty sure pinkpoint refers to trad climbs with pre-placed pro.
This includes fixed nuts, cams, pins, etc.

Sorry guys, you've been pinkpointing all these years without knowing it.

So much butthurt already in this thread.

What if they are permanent chain draws?

What if the person who bolted it was taller?

The only people who care are in this thread.

Does the same logic apply to onsight/flash then? If someone hung the draws for me, I can still claim an onsight when I lead it?

If you have to ask then the answer is no.

Just get rid of all the terms and lets go with this

All of these are free climbing related. Each group is its own I did not try to compare if top rope on sight was harder than projecting a route for months with bolts etc.

No beta / chalk
- first attempt without rope > First attempt with out metal gear > First attempt with metal gear > first attempt without pre-hung bolts > first attempt with pre-hung bolts > first attempt top rope

With beta / chalk
- first attempt without rope > first attempt with out metal gear > First attempt with metal gear > first attempt without pre-hung bolts > first attempt with pre-hung bolts> first attempt top rope

Multi attempts / practice
- without rope (yes i know u can't do this but u can practice with rope than get rid of it > with out metal gear > with metal gear > without pre-hung bolts > with pre-hung bolts> top rope

The only people who care are 5.8 trad leaders or old crusties who no longer climb.

How often do people project/redpoint routes where you have to hand-hang the draws, anyways? Can you imagine cleaning your route after every burn? It's just silly.

If you want a proper send you need to carry a pack with a bunch of PBRs in it and everytime you clip a bolt you have to pull one out and chug it. That is the only true way you can call a send.

Rob T wrote: Kind of like "pinkpoint truthers" when you point out that the original definition makes no mention of equipment. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red…(climbing)

"Original definition", funny that the terms pinkpoint and redpoint predate Wikipedia by a healthy margin.

Like I said, if your ego is so delicate that you can't stand admitting you pinkpointed, then call it a redpoint. Put whatever degrees you think you are entitled to on your walls too, does not bother me.

Kyle Tarry wrote: This isn't correct. The bolts/draws are all still the same distance apart, so you climb the same amount above the previous one to clip the next.

It is correct. You have to reach higher to clip a draw into a hanger than you do to clip a rope into a draw. I'm thinking around 4" with a standard draw. It doesn't amount to much, but I think it counts more than just splitting hairs. One way is easier than the other.

I see I'm in the minority here, that's cool, to each their own. I agree with David Kerkeslager's approach. I don't go around saying "I redpointed this route", I usually just say "I climbed it" or "I led it". If you need more detail than that, just ask.

Kyle Tarry wrote: This isn't correct. The bolts/draws are all still the same distance apart, so you climb the same amount above the previous one to clip the next.

Kyle

Think about what you said. It will come to you....

When I pussypoint a route I have no problem telling people that is the style I climbed it in. Get over yourselves people!

Moof wrote:Call it what you want. I call it a pink point, but plenty of folks get their panties in a bunch when you say such truths. Watch how defensive folks get to this post to see what I mean. We are one step away from calling a TR a red point...

But if you never fall on the TR...
:P