Passive-Only Trad Anchor

I know alot about alot of things. Does that mean I could safely do any of them? Just because I know about open heart surgery doesn't mean I should attempt it.

Yes, I know this isn't as complex as open heart surgery but he still seems like someone that could use the help of an experience trad leader. Obviously he knows he needs someone who is experienced to help him or he would not have posted the question but reading a bunch of post is not the same as physically having someone next to you showing you what to do.

ebmudder wrote: Hi Dan: If you don't already have it, you might want to pick up a copy of Advanced Rockcraft by Royal Robbins (1970). He goes into great detail about stacking all manner of passive pro safely, and the techniques still apply today 47 yrs later. It's hard to imagine, however, a placement that couldn't be more safely protected with modern gear vs. stacked nuts. But of course you can drop your rack or use up your gear or have to fall back on passive pro techniques at any time.

Thanks for the recommendation. Ive toyed with getting it, maybe ill commit now. Its always fun playing with oldschool technique. also having creative passive pro methods has come in handy more than once for me; would love to observe RR's tricks of the trade.

did anyone else catch the weenies on a rant about how OP topics get thrown off topic by other people ranting ... inception...

I like the cams just hanging at the all passive pro anchor

rgold wrote: I've used stacked nuts periodically BITD, mostly for belay anchors since the placement requires both hands to get everything properly in place and snug against rotational loads, and had occasion to do it a few years ago when I had used the only cam that would have fit. And BITD I always had one or two of Stannard's slung stacked nuts on my rack.

I ran across a picture of that stacked placement from a few years ago.



It was part of a belay anchor and quite hard to clean actually.

What do you mean, "how".   You place bomber pieces, connect them down towards the angle of the climb, and voila you have an anchor.   

Nuts and hexes rule!!!   Just be prepared for long runouts when you cant find any constrictions.   

rockklimber wrote:

Nuts and hexes rule!!!   Just be prepared for long runouts when you cant find any constrictions.   

Hexcentrics - Chouinard Equipment's original name for their asymmetric* hexes and what are now simply called hexes - were used to protect the FA of Luxury Liner. You might know the climb better as Supercrack (of the Desert). That has pretty much no constrictions and was a scary lead, but they actually do work in parallel sided cracks.

The original hexes were just that - an equal sided hexagon, originally machine nuts. The wedge shaped "nuts" you refer to are "stoppers"

Edit for sloppy spelling.

^^^^^

Shoulda turned the left one 90 deg cw for a more secure fit i think.

Marc801 C wrote:

Hexcentrics - Chouinard Equipment's original name for their asymmetric* hexes and what are now simply called hexes - were used to protect the FA of Luxury Liner. You might know the climb better as Supercrack (of the Desert). That has pretty much no constrictions and was a scary lead, but they actually do work in parallel sided cracks.

The original hexes were just that - an equal sided hexagon, originally machine nuts. The wedge shaped "nuts" you refer to are "stoppers"

Edit for sloppy spelling.

I learned how to lead trad 16years ago on a set of hexes and 2 sets of nuts so I am pretty familiar with how they work.  I have had a set of hexes on my rack ever since and my students love using them once they learn how they work.  I know about the first ascent of supercrack and I am quite aware that nuts are also called stoppers and wedges and wires.  

Thanks for the lessons on passive clmbing gear.

https://www.amazon.com/Climbing-Anchors-Climb-John-Long/dp/0934641374

study study study

Gunkiemike wrote:

Is the smaller hex inside the larger hex and wedging against the larger hexes cord?  This looks very sketchy.

I know this was almost a year ago, but do tricams count as passive in the OP's definition? It seems if hexes count as passive then tricams should as well, and tricams work a lot better than hexes in parallel cracks in my experience (which is admittedly limited when it comes to hexes).

David Kerkeslager wrote:

I know this was almost a year ago, but do tricams count as passive in the OP's definition? It seems if hexes count as passive then tricams should as well, and tricams work a lot better than hexes in parallel cracks in my experience (which is admittedly limited when it comes to hexes).

Depends if you place them passively or if you place them so they are cammed.  

Hexes can be placed passively or cammed as well.  But I dont place many cammed hexes (and I use mine a lot).  

You do you, man. Nothing wrong with being cheap or climbing without springy thingies. Someday I'll be good enough to climb exclusively on pink tricams.

btw, does anyone want to give me some pink tricams?

Slartibartfast wrote:

You do you, man. Nothing wrong with being cheap or climbing without springy thingies. Someday I'll be good enough to climb exclusively on pink tricams.

btw, does anyone want to give me some pink tricams?

The only piece I carry three of!

Slartibartfast wrote:

 Someday I'll be good enough to climb exclusively on pink tricams.

btw, does anyone want to give me some pink tricams?

No!

I have three, and you're not getting any of them!

Sometimes I'll climb with only my tricams.  Lots of fun. :)

rockklimber wrote:

Is the smaller hex inside the larger hex and wedging against the larger hexes cord?  This looks very sketchy.

Exactly (on both points). I clipped the left hex so its cord would (in theory anyway) get loaded and stiffen. The smaller hex only moved inward 1/16" or so under bodyweight then held fast. 

rockklimber wrote:

Depends if you place them passively or if you place them so they are cammed.  

Hexes can be placed passively or cammed as well.  But I dont place many cammed hexes (and I use mine a lot).  

That wouldn't be my definition and it isn't a good one, since a certain amount of passive gear uses camming action, like the hexentrics just mentioned.  Moreover, if we were stuck with this definition, we would no longer speak of passive gear but only of passive placements.  The distinction between active and passive gear is whether the gear has springs and internal moving parts.  Tricams are passive gear no matter how they are placed.

rgold wrote:

That wouldn't be my definition and it isn't a good one, since a certain amount of passive gear uses camming action, like the hexentrics just mentioned.  Moreover, if we were stuck with this definition, we would no longer speak of passive gear but only of passive placements.  The distinction between active and passive gear is whether the gear has springs and internal moving parts.  Tricams are passive gear no matter how they are placed.

To add confusion to this discussion: some cams are rated for passive placement.